Discussing religion and/or politics is the kiss of death in forums. I host
some large Facebook groups, and we have very strong rules against even a hint
of either one. People who go in those directions are sent packing fast,
because any post along those lines is guaranteed to rip a community apart with
factionalism. The Haiku community is small enough as it is, this is the last
thing we want to foster.
Best regards,
Dane Scott
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On Sep 6, 2023 at 4:35 AM -0500, Axel Dörfler <axeld@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, wrote:
Hi Bryan,
I'm not sure where this is coming from, and I haven't been aware of any
hostility or opposition against you (but admittedly, I don't read the
forum much).
Our stance has always been to leave politics and religious matters out
of Haiku. Haiku is not the place to talk about these topics, and back
when most of the discussions went through the mailing lists, we would
have immediately stopped any discussion or arguments that went that
direction.
Personally, I wouldn't mind to talk about politics, but people generally
tend to not be open to discussions or arguments at all in this area, but
rather like to rehash or confirm what they already believe, or bash
other people, and opinions. So it generally makes no sense to have any
of that in a tech related forum.
So I'm sorry if you don't feel welcome here, but I'm sure it's just a
couple of individuals.
In any case, everyone with manners and honor is surely welcome, no
matter his political orientation.
That being said, go fuck yourselves, you conservative arses! ;-)
Bye,
Axel.
On 06.09.2023 06:18, Bryan Lunduke wrote:
Hi Ryan,
It sounds like you've been pretty well briefed on all of this, so no
need to re-hash everything.
I'm pretty fond of Haiku -- and have been actively advocating for
Haiku for many, many years. When I see Haiku succeed, it brings a
smile to my face. And I'd love to see Haiku do wonderfully well over
the years to come.
Worth noting: Augustin handled his interactions with me in a
professional way. Very much impressed with his logic, reasonableness,
and how he handled himself.
Allow me to make a few small observations, thoughts, and
recommendations. You are free to ignore all of these -- While I've
sat on the board of Linux distros and run marketing for Tech firms...
Haiku is your project. Not mine. Just thoughts that I hope will
prove helpful.
- The lack of official, dedicated press contact is a major problem.
This is something that is going to continue holding Haiku back until
you have a good marketing / PR person. Doesn't need to be a full time
position. Volunteer is ok, as long as the person is good.
- Don't send journalists to the forum. The folks on the forum... no
offense to them... but they make Haiku look bad. Angry. Abrasive.
Confused. And very much not helpful. I recommend keeping the public
away from the Haiku forum to help the Haiku public image. A
cultivated public outreach (blogs, social, screenshot campaigns, etc.)
could do wonders with relatively little effort.
- Obviously I am not welcome. Either to publicly interact with Haiku
team members, or to contribute to the project. That makes me sad, but
is absolutely your choice to make. The fact that this is due to me
being public about my political stances means that I can no longer
publicly advocate for people to use or contribute to Haiku -- it would
be uncool of me to suggest people get invested in a project or system
that does not want them around if they have the wrong politics. I
strongly hope that your team reconsiders this approach in the future.
- Haiku is *right on the edge* of massive success. Has been for a
while now. The limiting factor is *not* engineering right now. I
have considered dedicating time to help Haiku in the areas needed --
contributing to the project in those key ways where nobody else seems
to be working. It is obvious I would not be welcome, so I will
respect that and stay clear.
- I 100% approve of taking a non-political stance with Haiku. I do
the same thing with my publication (where political discussions are
not allowed). How I handle this is to simply keep the content
(articles, shows, comments, etc.) all politics-free... but anyone (of
any political persuasion, no matter how public they are about it) is
welcome to take part. Just so long as they leave politics out of the
Tech discussions. That way maximizes inclusivity, in a very real way.
- There will certainly come a point where I get asked about Haiku.
This happens regularly, considering my long-term advocacy. Eventually
I will need to make a statement as to why I can not discuss or
recommend Haiku anymore. I am going to put this off as long as
possible in the hopes that the Haiku team reconsiders this policy.
If any official team-member from Haiku would like to discuss anything
further, just reach out. I'm rooting for you guys. Really am. When
you come to your senses, just holler. ;)
-Bryan Lunduke
On Tue, Sep 5, 2023 at 5:20 PM Ryan Leavengood <leavengood@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I am not sure what is prompting this, but I would love to hear more, in
private, if needed. I am behind on the mailing lists and forum, so I
suppose I should catch up there.
I personally try to keep politics out of my interactions with Haiku, but
for what it is worth I don't consider myself left leaning. I know several
other members of the Haiku project which I could say the same. We do have
some folks which most would consider fairly left leaning. Maybe they are
more outspoken. I would prefer not to name names. But I don't think the
project has any particular politics beyond maybe some sense of
libertarianism in trying to create a free operating system.
I am a member of Haiku, Inc. and I have been involved with the project
for many years. Being a member of Haiku, Inc does not mean I am an
official spokesperson, but I will answer your questions from my
perspective:
1. No.
2. N/A
3. There is no such policy of political discrimination for the project,
so therefore it does not extend to anyone.
4. N/A
On Tue, Sep 5, 2023 at 5:30 PM Bryan Lunduke <bryanlunduke@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
After some conversations, I am left with the understanding that Haiku
has a policy of not working with journalists who have non-Left-Leaning
personal political stances (even when the publications are
non-political).
I am asking for an official answer to the following questions here:
Does Haiku have a policy against speaking with journalists with
specific political ideals?
If so, what are the details of that policy?
Does that policy extend to users, developers, financial supporters, or
others involved or interacting with Haiku?
Who created that policy and how can they be reached for comment?
I ask these questions as a long-time supporter and public advocate for
Haiku.
-Lunduke
--
Regards,
Ryan
Bye,
Axel.
