[gha-peace] Re: Is the US supporting Ukraine? Or the interests of US oligarchs?+++Genius responses., discussion
- From: "ozemail.com.au" <mindquest@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: Leo Semashko <leo.semashko@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2022 11:39:30 +1100
FYI Michael
Mbrenner] FYI A RUSSIAN ON RUSSIA
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/02/europe-should-leave-nato-behind-and-integrate-with-russia.html#more
MoA - Europe Should Leave NATO Behind And Integrate With RussiaEurope Should Leave NATO Behind And Integrate With Russia. The ongoing scuffle over Russia's and China's efforts to rearrange the global order continues.. The recent Chinese Russian statement made it look as if Russia has completely turned its back to Europe and is now locked into an Eurasian destiny with China, Iran and the Central Asian states. That however does not seem to be Russia's ...www.moonofalabama.org Europe Should Leave NATO Behind And Integrate With Russia
The ongoing scuffle over Russia's and China's efforts to rearrange the global order continues.
The recent Chinese Russian statement made it look as if Russia has completely turned its back to Europe and is now locked into an Eurasian destiny with China, Iran and the Central Asian states. That however does not seem to be Russia's understanding.
A man who has Putin's ear, Professor Sergey Karaganov who is the honorary chairman of Russia’s Council on Foreign and Defense Policy, has written an op-ed that points to an alternative.
The piece was requested by and supposed to be published in the Financial Times, which means that it is directed at the European leadership. But the FT has now rejected it for unstated reasons. It was then published in the Russia in Global Affairs journal and has now been re-published by RT.
Russia will not invade the Ukraine, Karaganov writes. The real issue at hand is the potential threat that NATO may become for Russia should it come nearer to Russia's border.
He then states:
The security system in Europe, built largely by the West after the 1990s, without a peace treaty having been signed after the end of the previous Cold War, is dangerously unsustainable.
There are a few ways to solve the narrow Ukrainian problem, such as its return to permanent neutrality, or legal guarantees from several key NATO countries not to ever vote for further expansion of the bloc. Diplomats, I assume, have a few others up their sleeves. We do not want to humiliate Brussels by insisting on repudiating its erroneous plea for the open-ended expansion of NATO. We all know the end of the Versailles humiliation. And, of course, the implementation of the Minsk agreements.
But the task is wider: to build a viable system on the ruins of the present. And without resorting to arms, of course. Probably in the wider Greater Eurasian framework. Russia needs a safe and friendly Western flank in the competition of the future. Europe without Russia or even against it has been rapidly losing its international clout. That was predicted by many people in the 1990s, when Russia offered to integrate with, not in, the continent’s systems. We are too big and proud to be absorbed. Our pitch was rejected then, but there is always a chance it won’t be this time.
That last paragraph is quite astonishing.
"Russia needs a safe and friendly Western flank in the competition of the future."
Russia just allied with China.
What "competition of the future" does Karaganov envision that would necessitate a "friendly western flank" for Russia? That "competition" would be in the east or south from Russia? With whom?
Is Karaganov thinking of a U.S. vs. China conflict that would necessitate Russian support for China?
In the late 1990s Russia indeed tried to integrate with Europe, NATO or a follow up organization. That was rejected by the U.S. which did not want another big dog among its pack of European ankle-biters.
But what Karaganov seems to envision now is an integration of Russia with Europe without U.S. involvement.
That is certainly something the French President Macron would also like to see. France has long insisted on European sovereignty including in defense matters. German's chancellor Scholz would likewise agree with it. As would other west-European countries. (MB: This is a debatable proposition)
This especially after the U.S. president arrogantly asserted power over a German-Russian economic project the U.S. no relation with. This even while Chancellor Scholz, standing next him, avoided to make any commitment in that regard:
PRESIDENT BIDEN: The first question first. If Germany — if Russia invades — that means tanks or troops crossing* the — the border of Ukraine again — then there will be — we — there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it.Q: But how will you — how will you do that exactly, since the project and control of the project is within Germany’s control?
PRESIDENT BIDEN: We will — I promise you, we’ll be able to do it.
Such talk alone should be reason enough for Germany to leave NATO and to kick the remaining U.S. troops out of its country.
But to set up an alternative organization is not easy. The current European Union structures in Brussels do not allow for doing that under an EU umbrella. A new alliance of France, German, Spain and maybe Italy could be a decent start to then integrate with Russia. That would certainly also attract other European NATO members though some eastern European countries would probably lag because of their historic Russia phobia.
That all may look to be far outside of the current horizon. But we should remember that it was a U.S. president who just five years ago considered to leave NATO.
Karaganov may be onto something and the European capitals should start to think about it.
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* Biden seems to be fine with the Russian long range artillery and airforce action should the Ukraine dare to attack its rebellious Donbas region. Good, as that is likely what Russia has planned to do.Posted by b on February 8, 2022 at 18:00 UTC | Permalink
MB: Putin has been saying this in lengthy speeches, and elaborated in uncommon detail, for at least 15 years - evident if anyone bothers to read the transcripts. By the way, Karaganov is indeed an insider - of long standing I recall attending a seminar with him back in 1997 when he had some advisory role within the Yeltsin government (and sported the biggest ROLEX I have ever seen)
Comments
that's the point of biden provoking russia to invade ukraine, to get all up in germany's face about nord stream and forcing US hegemony over european oil transit. of course he's fine with russian long range artillery and airforce action!
Posted by: annie | Feb 8 2022 18:18 utc | 1
Hopefully Scholtz was so incensed by Biden's arrogance, bullying and threats against a German commercial project that he goes to Moscow and gets things settled. The US might be making another mistake. It has already pushed Russia into a strategic partnership with China. Now, by warmongering and making sensational claims about an "invasion" of Ukraine, it might drive Germany and France to find their own path with Russia, because they must know that Washington is doing this, in part, to discipline them.
At the same time, US moves all show a weakness. It is trying to bully Germany and France before any meetings with Putin. It is sending meaningless troops to Eastern Europe, as Ritter points out. And Biden keeps talking about Russian tank and troop movements across the border as redlines, the implication of which is that the US actually has little control in Ukraine, can't respond to any Russian defense of Donbass, and is being forced not to overcommit because the inevitable loss would be too embarrassing.
Posted by: Prof | Feb 8 2022 18:21 utc | 2
there will be — we — there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it. ..... PRESIDENT BIDEN: We will — I promise you, we’ll be able to do it.a teeth-grinding moment in american *diplomacy*.
Posted by: annie | Feb 8 2022 18:22 utc | 3
Sent from my iPhone
On 6 Feb 2022, at 5:37 am, Leo Semashko <leo.semashko@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Re: Is the US supporting Ukraine? Or the interests of US oligarchs?+++Genius responses., discussion Genius responses. Publication in full:
https://peacefromharmony.org/?cat=en_c&key=1026
https://www.quora.com/How-does-Vladimir-Putin-constantly-keep-deceiving-the-West/answer/Don-Hank-5
How does Vladimir Putin constantly keep deceiving the West?
The problem with the Western public and Western “experts” is that they tend to expect Russia do behave just like the US.
https://www.quora.com/As-I-watch-Ukraine-I-wonder-why-Biden-and-Putin-cannot-start-a-conversation-about-world-peace-Why-must-we-keep-this-exhausting-power-struggle-on-our-world-stage-Are-we-not-intelligent-enough-to-start-this
As I watch Ukraine, I wonder why Biden and Putin cannot start a conversation about world peace? Why must we keep this exhausting power struggle on our world stage? Are we not intelligent enough to start this conversation? (not a partisan question)
Don Hank,
MA Russian, Kutztown University of Pennsylvania, USA
05-02-22
Comment. GENIUS QUESTION! YES, YOU HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT HUMANITY AND ITS LEADERS DO NOT ENOUGH INTELLIGENCE, MIND FOR GLOBAL, "ETERNAL" AT KANT PEACE, NO SCIENCE, CONCEPTS AND LANGUAGE OF STRATEGIC PEACE TO TALK ABOUT IT! THEY HAVE NOT ADVANCED BEYOND THE BORDERS OF WAR AND VIOLENCE.
Only the Gandhian “Spherons Global Peace MegaScience”, created in the GGHA for 17 years “on the giant’s shoulders”, fills this fundamental intellectual gap of humanity and its leaders concerning the strategic, "eternal" peace as absolute security for all nations. - Leo Semashko.
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----- Original Message -----
From: DON HANK, zoilandon@xxxxxxx
To: leo.semashko@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: 5 февраля 2022 г., 17:01:08
Subject: Is the US supporting Ukraine? Or the interests of US oligarchs?
When you send lethal arms to a country so they can kill each other, is that "support"? Or is it a crime against humanity?
What they don’t tell you is criminal
You will NEVER see any news directly from Donbass (the self-declared republics of LDNR, Lugansk and Donetsk People’s Republics).
There is only ONE reporter, independent reporter Patrick Lancaster, who reports regularly from here, both in texts and in videos. Patrick has been doing this for years. He lives in the war zone with the citizens, reporting with both the fighters and the ordinary citizens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luiJpRr6yZQ
To opt out, just return this email with Unsubscribe in the title line
Patrick Lancaster
58.5K subscribers
As World Powers keep accusing Russia of threatening the stability of Europe with "Russian Aggression" toward Ukraine I decided to head to the frontline of the Donetsk People's Republic to show you what is really happening there and what the soldiers think about the possibility of "Russian Aggression" against Ukraine and what the think is coming soon. I am the only Journalist that has made English reports in the frontline of the Anti Ukraine forces side of frontline because the western mainstream media does not want to show the people what the real truth is. They only want to show the people what fits their counties narrative. I show you the real facts on the ground here.
https://www.quora.com/How-does-Vladimir-Putin-constantly-keep-deceiving-the-West/answer/Don-Hank-5
How does Vladimir Putin constantly keep deceiving the West?
Don Hank, MA Russian, Kutztown University of Pennsylvania
The problem with the Western public and Western “experts” is that they tend to expect Russia do behave just like the US.
Fortunately, Moscow does not take its cue from Washington.
Just because the US Establishment does almost nothing but deceive everyone, does not mean Russia does this.
Russia has not deceived anyone.
The US started its massive campaign of deceit in Feb 2014 when it went into the Maidan in Kiev and pretended to want to “democratize” and “liberate” Ukraine.
After instigating and fomenting an illegal and violent coup to oust a democratically elected president, and taking the reins of power, transferring the power to Washington, the US and its obedient stenographers in the media proclaimed that this US-controlled new government was “democratic” and Ukraine was now “free.”
Now the patriotic US public reveres its government and msn and believes whatever these deceivers tell them.
It ought to be crystal clear that when a foreign country achieves the overthrow of a democratically elected government, no people sound of mind could possible think this is “democracy.” And yet this open and transparent deception was easily achieved with the majority of Americans and also with most unsuspecting Ukrainians.
How was this sleight of hand possible?
For a number of reasons:
1—The US was the richest country in the world and had the biggest armed forces, which most people thought were invincible. (They did not yet understand the strength of the Russian and Chinese armed forces).
2—It was inconceivable to most people that a country like the US would lie so brazenly, calling black white and white black and calling good evil and evil good.
3—Both Westerners and Ukrainians WANTED very much to believe they were in good hands and could trust the US.
4—The US controlled in various ways the minds of Westerners and Ukrainians simply by repeating its lies over and over again 24/7 and pressured the European press to repeat its lies — which is not all that difficult because Europe was at that time predisposed to believe the US.
5—The US president was Obama and many people felt it would be racist to suggest that he could be lying to them.
6—For well over a century, the US and at least the UK had been held spellbound aby the myth that Russia is inherently evil, and the cold war had reinforced this notion. Therefore, since the Kiev government overthrown by the US was friendly with Russia, convincing them that there was something sinister or evil about that government was quite easy for the propagandists in the US Establishment.
I have posted about this bizarre Ukraine phenomenon previously. Details:
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Ukraine-a-country/answer/Don-Hank-3
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