[gha-peace] Re: GANDHI GOLDEN RULE friendly ring/discussion

From: Lucas Pawlik <pawlik.lucas@xxxxxxxxx>
To: Leo Semashko <leo.semashko@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2024 21:55:53 +0200

2 Seconds of judgement by Chat-GPT:

The argument that Mahatma Gandhi advocates "to kill the killers" simplifies
and potentially misinterprets the nuanced stance Gandhi had regarding
non-violence and extreme situations where violence might be considered
necessary. Gandhi’s philosophy was deeply rooted in Ahimsa, or
non-violence, which he considered an imperative guiding principle for
personal behavior and social activism. The quotes provided do show Gandhi
acknowledging extreme scenarios where causing harm or even killing could be
considered necessary to save others or prevent greater harm. However, these
acknowledgments come with significant caveats and are framed within a
broader discourse on the importance of non-violence.

Gandhi's reflections on such scenarios were meant to illustrate the
complexity of applying non-violence in a world where harm and violence
exist, not to advocate violence as a strategy or principle. He emphasized
the purity of intention and the reluctance with which one should ever
resort to violence, suggesting that such actions are a last resort and not
in contradiction with a broader commitment to non-violence when done to
protect others without hatred or personal gain.

In legal and ethical discussions, similar dilemmas are acknowledged through
concepts like "justifiable homicide" or "self-defense," where violence is
permitted under stringent conditions to prevent imminent harm. These
concepts recognize the moral complexity of real-world scenarios while
maintaining a general prohibition against violence.

Therefore, claiming Gandhi advocates "to kill the killers" without the
contextual understanding of his broader philosophy could be seen as a
misrepresentation. His argument was more about recognizing the difficult
moral choices people might face and less about advocating for violence as a
solution. Gandhi's legacy is overwhelmingly one of non-violence and peace,
and his discussions of these extreme cases were meant to deepen the
understanding of Ahimsa, not undermine it.

[image: User]
You
Dear Chat-GPT, and friend is very aroused by the current political
circumstances and argues that Mahatma Gandhi advocates "to kill the
Killers". As a Chat-Gpt extension specialized on law, how would you judge
his line of argument? Second. The fact that you are not able to find a
quote using the links proves your extreme laziness and helplessness to work
with the scientific bibliography, which is indicated in my letters and
Gandhica. You ignored all this. Here you are NOT a scientist, but a
schoolboy. I quote to you this passage from Gandhi in full from the source:
M. Gandhi. My Religion, Chapter 26:
https://gandhiashramsevagram.org/my-religion/chapter-26-love-in-relating-to-the-animal-world.php.
«Even manslaughter may be necessary in certain cases. Suppose a man runs
amuck and goes furiously about sword in hand, and killing any one that
comes his way, and no one dares to capture him alive. Anyone who dispatches
this lunatic will earn the gratitude of the community and be regarded a
benevolent man. From the point of view of Ahimsa it is the plain duty of
every one to kill such a man. There is indeed one exception if it can be so
called. The yogi who can subdue the fury of this dangerous man may not kill
him. But we are not here dealing with beings who have almost reached
perfection; we are considering the duty of a society of ordinary erring
human beings. There may be a difference of opinion as regards the
appositeness of my illustrations. But if they are inadequate, others can be
easily imagined. What they are meant to show is that refraining from taking
life can in no circumstances be an absolute duty. The fact is that Ahimsa
does not simply mean non-killing. Himsa means causing pain to or killing
any life out of anger, or from a selfish purpose, or with the intention of
injuring it. Refraining from so doing is Ahimsa. The physician who
prescribes bitter medicine causes you pain but does no Himsa. If he fails
to prescribe bitter medicine when it is necessary to do so, he fails in his
duty of Ahimsa. The surgeon who, from fear of causing pain to his patient,
hesitates to amputate a rotten limb is guilty of Himsa. He who refrains
from killing a murderer who is about to kill his ward (when he cannot
prevent him otherwise) earns no merit, but commits a sin, he practises no
Ahimsa, but Himsa out of a fatuous sense of Ahimsa. Young India, 1926.»
Gandhi's recommendation to women to kill any rapist against them by any
available means is similar.
Is this argument correct?

Am Mo., 1. Apr. 2024 um 20:42 Uhr schrieb Leo Semashko <
leo.semashko@xxxxxxxxx>:

Dear Lucas,

First, as Orthodox Christian, I am glad to congratulate you as a Catholic
Christian. More detailed congratulations is here:
https://peacefromharmony.org/?cat=en_c&key=1184. Or are you NOT a
Christian, NOT a believer and an atheist is, who has no God and everything
is allowed him, like your Hitler and your Nazi Kyiv terrorists, whom you
applaud while standing in all your parliaments and governments? For some
reason you missed Easter, the main Christian holiday, past your ears, eyes
and brains. Is this coincidence, or is it not a coincidence with your
“values”? For me this is extremely important, priority. If we are both
Christians, then this is the powerful positive platform for our
peace/nonviolence and dialogue.

Second. The fact that you are not able to find a quote using the links
proves your extreme laziness and helplessness to work with the scientific
bibliography, which is indicated in my letters and Gandhica. You ignored
all this. Here you are NOT a scientist, but a schoolboy. I quote to you
this passage from Gandhi in full from the source: M. Gandhi. My Religion,
Chapter 26:
https://gandhiashramsevagram.org/my-religion/chapter-26-love-in-relating-to-the-animal-world.php.

«Even manslaughter may be necessary in certain cases. Suppose a man runs
amuck and goes furiously about sword in hand, and killing any one that
comes his way, and no one dares to capture him alive. Anyone who
dispatches this lunatic will earn the gratitude of the community and be
regarded a benevolent man.

From the point of view of Ahimsa it is the plain duty of every one to
kill such a man. There is indeed one exception if it can be so called. The
yogi who can subdue the fury of this dangerous man may not kill him. But
we are not here dealing with beings who have almost reached perfection; we
are considering the duty of a society of ordinary erring human beings.

There may be a difference of opinion as regards the appositeness of my
illustrations. But if they are inadequate, others can be easily imagined. What
they are meant to show is that refraining from taking life can in no
circumstances be an absolute duty.

The fact is that Ahimsa does not simply mean non-killing. Himsa means
causing pain to or killing any life out of anger, or from a selfish
purpose, or with the intention of injuring it. Refraining from so doing is
Ahimsa.

The physician who prescribes bitter medicine causes you pain but does no
Himsa. If he fails to prescribe bitter medicine when it is necessary to do
so, he fails in his duty of Ahimsa. The surgeon who, from fear of causing
pain to his patient, hesitates to amputate a rotten limb is guilty of
Himsa. He who refrains from killing a murderer who is about to kill his
ward (when he cannot prevent him otherwise) earns no merit, but commits a
sin, he practises no Ahimsa, but Himsa out of a fatuous sense of Ahimsa.
Young India, 1926.» Gandhi's recommendation to women to kill any rapist
against them by any available means is similar.

Later, 22 years later, he repeats his law “Kill the killer” in a more
general, dialectical manner of the opposites relationship for
“violence-nonviolence”,
“himsa-ahimsa”: «Ahimsa is a comprehensive principle. We are helpless
mortals caught in the conflagration of Himsa… Then again because underlying
Ahimsa is the unity of all life, the error of one cannot but affect all,
and hence man cannot be wholly free from Himsa. Autobiography, 1948».
(Ibid.)

The quoted ideas of Gandhi express the natural law of self-preservation
and self-defense, which has long been included in international and
national laws. Your pathos and narcissism with your stupid and vile
sophistry of murder demonstrates not only the scale of your ignorance, but
also the depth of your personal baseness. You are ready not only to
cowardly lie down under the murderer and become a corpse, so as not to
become his murderer, but also to cowardly put your parents, wife and
children under him, so as not to again become the murderer of the murderer.
Whether there is more ignorance or immorality here, your history will
judge. In any case, you are an excellent example of Einstein's “infinite
stupidity”: “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human
stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former.”

Third. I am glad to congratulate you on your courageous decision to
accept my challenge and take part in our conceptual ring, which in one
respect can end/kill lies, and in another become a tool for identifying
truths on both sides, integrating them in synergy based on cooperation and
friendship. But it depends on how we prepare our ring and what content we
fill it with. Therefore, I still have doubts about your courage, which can
only be dispelled by your strong positive proposals for organizing our
one-hour ring. In response to them, I will offer my rules of the ring. Do
you agree with this?

Let the Gandhian spherons come to you and raise your thinking,

Leo

GGHA Peace/Nonviolence Scientific Formula:

"Peace/Nonviolence Comes from Spherons Harmony through their Peace Science
and AI"

Regards,

Dr. Leo Semashko:

-State Councilor of St.  Petersburg, Russia; RANH Professor;

-Philosopher, Sociologist, Cybernetician and Peacemaker from Spherons’
Harmony;

-Gandhian Global Harmony Association (GGHA) Founder (2005) and H/President
(2016);

-GGHA Website "Peace from Spherons Harmony" Director:
www.peacefromharmony.org;

- Spherons’ verification, available at any social object for each in 2
hours:

https://peacefromharmony.org/?cat=en_c&key=1125

-True Peace Artificial Intelligence of global statistics:

https://peacefromharmony.org/?cat=en_c&key=1109

         Editor, the GGHA 10 books for 18 years, including:

-Anti-Nuclear Manifesto, 2020:
https://peacefromharmony.org/?cat=en_c&key=908;

-Gandhica, 2019: https://peacefromharmony.org/?cat=en_c&key=848;

-Global    Peace    Science of the Spherons, (GPSS), 2016:

http://peacefromharmony.org/docs/global-peace-science-2016.pdf;

- Humanity Is Able To Live In Global Peace, Without Wars And Violence.
2023:

https://worldgrowthforums.com/world-growth-forums-magazines/wgf-mag-jun-2023/

-Personal page: http://peacefromharmony.org/?cat=en_c&key=253

----- Original Message -----

  From: Lucas Pawlik, pawlik.lucas@xxxxxxxxx

  To: leo.semashko@xxxxxxxxx

  Sent: 29 марта 2024 г., 23:29:58

  Subject: [gha-peace] Re: GANDHI GOLDEN RULE friendly ring/discussion

Dear Leo,
                  I have not found your quote from Mahatma Gandhi, "Kill
the killers," in any of your responses. If you can prove this quote exists,
I accept the duel and would like you to promote it:

Killer the Killers - Mahatma Gandhi's Doctrine of non-violence reloaded

As you are the Gandhi expert, you can also explain how Gandi expects us to
kill the enemy.

What exact killing methods that Mahatma Gandhi advocate in his path of
non-violence?

Regarding the Sperons, I am indeed very interested to know how Mahatma
Gandhi recommends using them to kill the killers.

And a last question: when you have killed the killers,  would you stay
committed and kill yourself afterward?

After all, once you kill the killer, you are the killer.

Let us use your answer to these questions to advertise our friendly,
nonviolent duel. Many people will be as surprised as I was about this new
understanding of Gandhi's nonviolence.

Please answer my questions publically before the duel. The more people we
get together, the more people we can lead to kill the killer, as Mahatma
Gandhi indeed envisioned in his legacy.

May the spherons be with you,

Lucas

Am Do., 28. März 2024 um 18:09 Uhr schrieb Leo Semashko <
leo.tetrism76@xxxxxxxxx>:

Dear Lucas,

Your last, non-scientific lines, with a mush from Gandhi, Hammurabi,
Plato and Putin, completely contradict your first lines. Porridge is not
subject to scientific discussion, poor Lucas. Let's talk about the positive.

You and I are long-time peacemakers, both philosophers, so let us focus
on the philosophical, holistic vision of peace, which is expressed in our
integral, “Gandhian Peace Science” (GPS) by about 750 its coauthors for
more than 19 years, in the creation of which you actively participated for
several years in the GGHA.

For almost 20 years, the GGHA has created on its website “Peace from
Spherons Harmony” (https://peacefromharmony.org/) about 700 personal
pages of authors of all humanities disciplines as a cognitive fund and
arsenal of our GPS, which has integrated and continues to integrate many
constructive ideas from it, including yours in hundreds of its peace
projects, articles, books, messages, etc. Your ideas have been presented on
your personal page since 2015 here:
https://peacefromharmony.org/?cat=en_c&key=887.

I will not delve into your early, wonderful cybernetic ideas from your
great teacher Heinz (2004), who truly recognized that machines will become
smarter than humans if they become increasingly stupid, without
understanding society as a whole, as well as your wonderful peacekeeping
ideas "Innovators of Peace. Pioneers of Peace, 2015”, “Gandhi Gardens”,
“Hack or Die” and finally your “Fungi Future - Biosphere Rescue Plan”. The
latter remained beyond our understanding, so I exclude it from the circle
of your achievements and productive ideas.

In 2019, at my invitation, you wrote a brilliant “Conclusion” to one of
the GGHA fundamental books “Gandhica” (
https://peacefromharmony.org/docs/gandhi-nonviolence-of-spherons-gandhica-2019.pdf).
In its excellent synopsis you write: “Through the advancement of AI and
hypersonic weapons, Gandhi's Golden Rule of Non-Violence [which in
Gandhi’s law “kill the killer, the Nazi, for the sake of peace/nonviolence”
is embodied today by Putin] becomes humanity's most important survival
principle in steering digitalization. We either non-violently hack
humanity's digitally empowered circle of violence or die from its
escalation.”(p
152).

We completely, 100% agree with it, if we add to it the Nazi ideology of
absolute violence/genocide, with your great conclusions: “restore
understanding and control of society to prevent totalitarian control,
global war and ecocide”, “revival of civil versus military cybernetics”,
“reorganize our evolution”, “nonviolent self-organization instead of
immortalization of wars." And most importantly, your call by scientists
and cyberneticists to “unite human and machine intelligence to lead
humanity with Gandhi’s Golden Rule of Nonviolence” in order to survive,
not die. And so on. Your cybernetic ideas have been embodied in the GGHA
project “Peace, Safe AI”, which we are actively promoting now (
https://peacefromharmony.org/?cat=en_c&key=1168).

Your misfortune and limitation was only that you were unable to
understand the fundamental idea of Gandhi’s “varnas/spherons” as the
ONLY ACTORS OF THE GREATEST FORCE OF NON-VIOLENCE/PEACE of humanity. Unlike
dozens of the GGHA members, who at that time carried out statistical
verification of the spherons in their countries, you were too lazy to do
this for the spherons of Austria, therefore you did not understand this
deep, genetic reality that governs humanity at all levels, starting with
the individual, family, etc. This fundamental gap devalued your great
ideas, but was filled in the GPS, which, for this reason, you now do not
want to acknowledge, although you have invested a lot in it.

Due to your similar contradictions, I invite you to a one-hour public
discussion on ZOOM as a friendly conceptual boxing ring on any of the
topics close to both of us, for example: “How is safe AI possible for
peace, and not for war?”, or , “Sociocybernetics and macrosociology:
what is their mutual complementarity?”, or, “Global Peace Science and AI”,
etc. You could suggest your topics for our discussion. We could discuss the
details of the organization and preparation of our ring/discussion after
your consent with it.

Dr. Rudolf Siebert from the USA in his letter to me warmly supports the
idea of ZOOM discussions, where he writes about its theological
implementation (his response here:
https://peacefromharmony.org/?cat=en_c&key=1175). I am also sending you
our Message with him attached (which was sent to Mr Putin), where the idea
of the conceptual ring is developed in more detail. This invitation applies
to all brave scientists who are ready to defend the TRUTH, which according
to Gandhi “is GOD!”, if it has not yet died in the West.

Similar discussions constitute a way of scientific mobilization of
peacemaking, pacifism and “Gandhi’s Golden Rule of Non-violence” on the
verge of nuclear suicide and ecocide of the century-old Nazi ideology “Mein
Kampf”, which civilization cannot “HACK SO NOT TO DIE” according to your
laconic formula. Nothing interferes with our conceptual friendly
duel/discussion unless you are afraid of it. But we hope that you are a
brave and courageous person. Our “weight” categories are approximately
equal, and its goal is not destruction, but further cooperation and
friendship for the sake of peace/nonviolence, which we both dream of. Do
you want this, or are some “values” holding you back?

Friendly,

Leo,

GGHA Peace Formula:

"Peace Comes from Spherons Harmony through their Peace Science and AI"

Dr. Leo Semashko:

-State Councilor of St.  Petersburg, Russia; RANH Professor;

-Philosopher, Sociologist, Cybernetician and Peacemaker from Spherons’
Harmony;

-Gandhian Global Harmony Association (GGHA) Founder (2005) and
H/President (2016);

-GGHA Website "Peace from Spherons Harmony" Director:
www.peacefromharmony.org;

- Spherons’ verification, available at any social object for each in 2
hours:

https://peacefromharmony.org/?cat=en_c&key=1125

-True Peace Artificial Intelligence of global statistics:

https://peacefromharmony.org/?cat=en_c&key=1109

         Editor, the GGHA 10 books for 18 years, including:

-Anti-Nuclear Manifesto, 2020:
https://peacefromharmony.org/?cat=en_c&key=908;

-Gandhica, 2019: https://peacefromharmony.org/?cat=en_c&key=848;

-Global    Peace    Science of the Spherons, (GPSS), 2016:

http://peacefromharmony.org/docs/global-peace-science-2016.pdf;

- Humanity Is Able To Live In Global Peace, Without Wars And Violence.
2023:

https://worldgrowthforums.com/world-growth-forums-magazines/wgf-mag-jun-2023/

-Personal page: http://peacefromharmony.org/?cat=en_c&key=253

----- Original Message -----

  From: Lucas Pawlik, pawlik.lucas@xxxxxxxxx

  To: leo.semashko@xxxxxxxxx

  Sent: 24 марта 2024 г., 19:50:15

  Subject: [gha-peace] Re: GANDHI: DEATH TO UKRONAZISTS! Organizers of
the mass terrorism!

Dear Leo,
                Thank you for your kind remarks.   However, I did ask for
an actual scientific reference. Just because you write something on your
webpage does not make it true. This is not how science works.

When I am against something, I study it well enough to know at least the
names of what I am up against.  I noticed you do not care what you take
from whom without referencing it. Maybe you mixed up Gandhi's non-violence
with the Codex Hammurabi?

If you do scientific research, you will know that Gandhi borrowed the
idea from Plato, so it should be Plato and Putin. Poor Gandhi.

My condolences also for your ignorance.

Best wishes,

Lucas

Am So., 24. März 2024 um 16:16 Uhr schrieb Leo Semashko <
leo.semashko@xxxxxxxxx>:

сб, 23 мар. 2024 г., 15:34 Leo Semashko <leo.tetrism76@xxxxxxxxx>:

[image: изображение.png]

Publication:

In English: https://peacefromharmony.org/?cat=en_c&key=1175

In Russian: https://peacefromharmony.org/?cat=ru_c&key=1065

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References:
- [gha-peace] Re: GANDHI GOLDEN RULE friendly ring/discussion
  - From: Leo Semashko

[gha-peace] Re: GANDHI GOLDEN RULE friendly ring/discussion

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