An ecliptic (or any ) plane to me is an arbitary geometrical statement. If a top was spinning stable in a vertical position, then the plane of its rotation or orbit would be in a fixed plane. But what of the same top orbiting and precessing (gyrating)? The plane of the orbit and the plane of the spin and thus their axes would be continuously variable. Where would the geometrician put the axis of an unstable orbit that varied randomly in the vertical and horizontal plane? What was true for this instant would not be true for the next, and being random, would not be predictable.. I repeat my assertion an ecliptic plane is an imaginary geometrical construct used for graphic display. It has no other existence as an entity Philip. ----- Original Message ----- From: Neville Jones To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 9:42 AM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: an axis or not? -----Original Message----- From: bbrauer777@xxxxxxxxx Sent: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:23:31 -0800 (PST) "An Earth system model wherein the sun goes around the Earth following the ecliptic path that is inseparable from the heliocentric model is not required at all in the Geocentrism model... Using the 'solar system' heliocentricity path of orbit on a Geocentrism model doesn't work because that path is not actually part of the Geocentrism model." Marshall Hall This is simply not true. In fact, it is primarily from a geocentric perspective that we get the concept of the ecliptic. N. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Free 3D Marine Aquarium Screensaver Watch dolphins, sharks & orcas on your desktop! Check it out at www.inbox.com/marineaquarium ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1221 - Release Date: 12/01/2008 2:04 PM