First of all, I'd like to welcome myself back. (My, this is a genteel forum.) Second, I hope that we can reach concensus now on this heliocentric/geocentric/acentric business. Basically, the problem is this: 1. What we are all taught is the acentric cosmology. 2. Acentric cosmology states that the Sun can be the centre of the universe. 3. Acentric cosmology states that the World can be regarded as the centre (even though "it isn't"). 4. Dynamical equivalence is used by Mach and Einstein to confuse people into thinking that you cannot tell the difference between heliocentric and geocentric. 5. The reason number 4 is true is because the World is deemed to rotate in both heliocentric and geocentric models. Using the "Do the alleged Apollo Moon landings conflict with the Bible?", on the website, if necessary, have you satisfied yourselves by now as to what I am maintaining? Do you agree? If not, then why not? Neville. "Dr. Neville Jones" <ntj005@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Gary, You answered: "No.1, yes. ... The acentric cosmology necessitates something that is still developing, thus making the Bible wrong. I don't accept that." I think, by this, your objection to acentrism is the "infinite" universe it requires? If so, then I agree with you. "No.2, No, primarily because I don't see how you can say the geocentric cosmology has anything to do with acentrism." You are mixing up your understanding of what "geocentrism" means and what the acentrist takes it to mean. This is the main reason for getting everyone to stick with the Biblical argument for so long. A geostatic World is also geocentric to you (and I - which is why we call our mathematical model "Geocentric Universe," rather than "Geostatic Universe"), but in modern science it MUST include a rotating World. (For those of you who have Geocentric Universe 2.2, see the illustrated talk, "Heliocentrism and Relativity," on the Guided Tour.) This second point also answers a question you posed earlier, when you asked me about Dr. Bouw's interpretation of geocentrism as having a rotating World. Dr. Bouw maintains the dynamical equivalence of heliocentrism and geocentrism. This means that, yes, he supports a rotating World (although I don't think he appreciated that until recently, when he started to use the term, "geostatic" after a list that Jack Lewis set up). 1. IN BIBLICAL COSMOLOGY, THE WORLD DOES NOT ROTATE. Website www.midclyth.supanet.com Neville. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com