If there was as much evidence for the supernatural as there is for heliocentrism, I'd have to think pretty hard about my position. But while one prediction after another within the heliocentric theory has been shown to have utility, I don't believe that, under controlled conditions, any prediction relying on the supernatural has ever been demonstrated. There is more than one idea to be debated here. However Paul, I do think you are mixing mathmatical certainty predictions with theoretical hypotheses. Like if you walk at 4mph after an hour you will have travelled 4 miles. None of this type of successful predictions, which always will work, do not really prove one has travelled 4 miles. It only proves that you have done the travelling effort equivalent of 4 miles. If you had been walking down the corridor of a moving train, without knowing it was moving, the reality of your real movement is unknown. None of the certain mathmatical computations that predict accurately Newtons laws of gravity or inertia actually prove that gravity is attraction between masses, or that inertia is a self evident property of a mass. Predictions of the stars were very accurate when the mathmaticians used calculations based upon geocentrism, long before the latter day saints of MS decided, without any proof, that Galleleo, a Martyr for science against a false religion, declared his theory that the sun was the centre of our solar system as a fact. An axiomatic truth. If you studied the history of the anticlerical, antichurch , and anti God feeling at the time, and saw the difference between their hatred and your easy going natural antipathy, which they did not have at that time, then you would more easily understand the weak foundations upon which modern science is built. Even the establishment today accepts that Newton was a follower of the cabbalistic occult delving into satanism. He hated Christ, but pretended otherwise because he feared the obvious. Galleleo likewise cared little for religion, always taking advantage of what he could get out of it, at a time when clerics of the Catholic Church were so corrupt, that one can easily understand why the reformation, which reformed nothing and created a tower of babel, occurred. Philip.