Dear Robert, I don't pretend to understand much of what you said but I imagine that Regner, if he is still around, would understand. Let us hope that he is still up for the game. However I do take issue with you regarding this quote from you, 'to which the forum has responded with more collective chaos than wisdom.' I am certainly one of those you are referring to but if it wasn't for our enthusiasm plus a level of ignorance, this forum would not exist. It is the likes of us who stirred up this debate about geocentrism verses heliocentrism and tried to get people like Regner to participate. If it was left purely up to the scientists to fight it out, little would happen. In the past I have tried to get those on each side of the fence to debate together so that I can follow what was going on but it isn't something that can easily be done without somebody feeling they are being set up. And anyway it a bit divisive and forcing confrontation rather than creating a healthy debating environment. So at then end of the day we would like to think of ourselves as being the little boy who said the 'Emperor has no clothes on'. With respect Jack