[fsf60k] Re: Solution/good news
- From: billcpf@xxxxxxx
- To: pedro831@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, pardo123@xxxxxxxxx, ikecip@xxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 14:17:23 -0400
Pedro,??
Here's a few more questions for your trip.?
?- Re. the broken generator - try to find out what happened to it and why it
couldn't be repaired. Who said so? Did bearings seize up or rods break from
lack of oil?? Is it issue of getting parts?? Could it have some resale value??
Can we buy a smaller or used generator for interim use?? Medium gas generators
can be $500 or so but fuel is probably higher.
? - About new well - try to find out some background on this community and who
would be selling land to us.? Is title clear and would it come with unlimited
water rights aside from technical questions of whether there is sufficient good
water?
?- For current lack of water without generator can some system be devised to
make it easier to transport water to Nuevo - remember the old water chariot
pulled by a horse that was used several years ago to get water from near La
Union. Maybe someone could be paid to help with this. Create a job in place of
fuel costs.
?- I assume water payments will be suspended until new system is functioning.
If water is delivered maybe some of that could be paid for and cover costs of
transport.
- Maybe we should buy some gutters and hoses and pipes to make it easier to
collect rain water in the current crisis. There's the big roof on the casa
communal and school which could collect a lot of water in rainy periods.? Would
have to discuss feasibility of this with residents. Also would depend on how
long new well and pump would take to install.? But might be possible to use
this in future for drip irrigation.
Bon voyage,??? Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter White <pedro831@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: George Pardo <pardo123@xxxxxxxxx>; Michael AR Cipoletti <ikecip@xxxxxxx>
Cc: richard wiltamuth <dwiltam@xxxxxxxxx>; billcpf@xxxxxxx;
lisapflanagan@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; fsf60k@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; skornblatt@xxxxxxxxx;
kelleystanford@xxxxxxxxx; abbyfl57@xxxxxxxxx; tlog0201@xxxxxxxxx;
clubgomes@xxxxxxx; jzima28@xxxxxxx; nycus@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wed, Jul 22, 2009 11:58 am
Subject: RE: Solution/good news
Hola
George. I will be with Mike for the next few days, and this NA water problem
will be one of our major tasks. Bill spoke of making sure of the
"replenishment"
factor in any new water area. We're not buying anything until all facts have
been found and all agree that it is the next best step. I still think there
must
be some utility for the present well in NA, even with 40ppb. I don't know how
they tested the well to get that count, did they purge the well like we had
done
when we got a reading of 12ppb last year or two years ago? I don't know. Also,
the water with the 40ppb, if it is that, can still be used for crops and
bathing
and maybe even animals, just not human consumption. Maybe a smaller generator,
not the big $4000 Pedro Lopez generator that Monica and Glen bought in July 07,
might get the water up for local use by biointensive gardens, other fields, and
other uses. And maybe the new site can provide the drinking water. We'll get
all
the facts we can and return with hopefully plenty of info before any money is
put forth. Please ask any questions or make any comments over the next few days
to Mikes email so we can use them while there. I'll be returning on Monday July
27. Lisa and Mike will be returning that day also. Lisa left today for Nica, I
leave tomorrow. PW
-----Original Message-----
From: George Pardo
[mailto:pardo123@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 12:29
AM
To: Michael AR Cipoletti
Cc: richard wiltamuth; Peter
White; billcpf@xxxxxxx; lisapflanagan@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; fsf60k@xxxxxxxxxxxxx;
skornblatt@xxxxxxxxx; kelleystanford@xxxxxxxxx; abbyfl57@xxxxxxxxx;
tlog0201@xxxxxxxxx; clubgomes@xxxxxxx; jzima28@xxxxxxx;
nycus@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Solution/good
news
are you referring the existing well?? Maybe a
test can be done to determine what is the max gallons per day that it can
sustain.? that is what we did with the other well.? We should really
do this before we buy a parcel of land.?? don't know if you were
already panning to do this but a reminder, just in
case.
Ciao,
Jorge
On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 3:13 AM, Michael AR Cipoletti
<ikecip@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Well has a depth of 220 feet (approx)
mc
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 17, 2009, at 8:22 PM, richard wiltamuth <dwiltam@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
the well in cortizal seems to offer many advantages---less or no
arsenic, cooler, cheaper equipment and promise of longer equipment
lifespan.? what is depth of water? is this the well with the wheel
where we drew water for nuevo a few years ago? would need to have the
water tested several times to make sure of arsenic and other potential
contaminants. would need the government to test and approve the water
before we sink money into this project. if this source is technically
feasible, given the longer distance the water has to travel, would be a
good solution. maybe we could buy the rights to pump a certain quantity
of
water rather than buying the land where the well is located. easements
would have to be arranged for the pipes.
am concerned about the nuevo
community's ability to use the arsenic filters as intended, given their
track record with the diesel generator and lack of literacy. the less
equipment involved, the less that can go wrong.
mike, thanks for your
tireless work on this; am glad you're on the scene like an agua machine.
you and the others will make a solution happen much faster.
dick
w.
On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 7:57 PM, Michael AR
Cipoletti <ikecip@xxxxxxx> wrote:
I met with Salvador Mora the gentleman from ENICAL that informed us
of the issue. I also spoke with several folks from the public health
center in UNAN LEon.. There seems to be a trend of rising arsenic
levels
in this watertable due to a variety of factors. They forsee the problem
worsening over time.. There is however a good potential solution. In
the
community of Cortizal located about 1000 meters from the location of
the
existing well with clean cool water. The temperature of the water is
under 80 degrees and has tested clean for several years. Salvador
conchita Marco ?and a couple of the students will be driving to
nuevo tomorrow morning to assess the possibilities of the location and
look into the land/ownership/selling price..
This site if viable would enable us to use the solar pump we
originally were going to purchase (half the price/easier to obtain) and
could potentially benefit more people....?
Salvador also said there is the possibilty of an electric generator
being wired in or a standard generator with a solar invertor to pump
the
water.
Additionally the existing tubing tanks seem as if they would still
work all we would need to do is connect the tanks to the new water
source.
I am happy with todays findings and the students and I will be
making this task a priority over the coming week.
I will send an update tomorrow afternoon. Wish us luck.
Michael
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 16, 2009, at 11:03 PM, George Pardo <pardo123@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Very bad news indeed.
As far as the arsenic is concerned,
it can be taken out of the water.? We can get the materials from
Dr. Meng to put together the filters, probably for about $30
each.? The chemicals I recall to be about $4-5$ per year.?
This is a viable option if we trust the people to operate the filters
properly.? They do already use a filter for bacteria.? I
also looked at a point of distribution filter that would be put by
the
well but that source is not yet totally available, although could be
developed for the future.? The Dr. Meng (Steven's) filter is a
sure thing.?? We could demonstrate the filter to MINSA and
get approval to open the well.
The water, even with 40ppb
arsenic, is still suitable for bathing and irrigation if it is not
poured on the part of th plant that you eat and not rinsed.? If
you irrigate at the roots no problem.? Something like lettuce or
cabbage could be a problem if not watered properly.? Corn would
be no problem because it is covered by the husk.
Pete I don't
think the crushing of the rock has anything to do with the arsenic
just the depth of the well.? The deeper wells are more likely to
have arsenic.
According to Dr. Meng there is no way to predict
where there will be clean water in a region where there is
arsenic.? You can have well with 900ppb and 30' away have a well
that is acceptable.? Drilling is trial and error.? The only
way to be sure to get clean water is to drill where there is already
a
good well.? One option is to drill in a remote location that is
known to be good and pipe the water to NA.? This will invlove
additional costs and additional complexity.? This was suggested
by the organization that did the water project in Chac.
The
main problem with drilling is the cost of drillling through
rock.? If there is an area in NA, perhaps in the 20's where there
is no rock, it would be worth the chance to drill several wells to in
order to find a clean one.? Maybe the water there may not be as
hot.
The question in my mind would be, do we want to deal with
the arsenic and temperature of the water in NA or is it best to pipe
the water in from somewhere else where the temperature is moderate,
letting us use cheaper pumps, and without arsenic.? The trade off
would probably a high tower tower and a larger tank and the possibly
a
couple of miles of pipe and negotiating the rights to lay that pipe,
possibly through public and private land.
I think I would try
to drill in the 20's at least 1 well and test the temperature of the
water and arsenic.? If there is a lower temperature that would
enable us to use a cheaper pumping system and we could use the
Steven's filter for the aresenic.? If we hit rock I would abandon
that well and perhaps look into piping the water in from a remote
location.
Mike and Pete hopefully you can gather some data on
the ground in Nica that can be used to develop a good direction.?
Good luck at the very least.
Please comment on the above
options.? Thanks.
George
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Peter White
<pedro831@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hola.
Brace yourselves for sure. Mike arrived in Nica late yesterday to
the
news that the Nica govt. org., Minsa?, tested the water in NA
and found it
to be 40 ppb arsenic, too high considering the nat'l
standard is now 10 ppb.
They suggested closing the well. We have
spent a lot of time on this
project, including two years ago
educating ourselves about arenic from Dr.
Meng from the STevens
Instit. of Tech. in Hoboken, NJ, who believes and has
proven that
arsenic can be removed cheaply, safely, etc. However this may
be
of no value if the Nica govt orders the well closed. The other
bad news is
that the two year old diesel motor is unable to be
repaired. So the people
are without water and walking for water I
suppose. Mike is going to be
asking a multitude of questions of
the MINSA people and others, and putting
his head together with
Conchita, Martin, and others about what the next
step/s are.
Please think about this and get your questions to Mike or
me
asap. I am going down to Nica for a quick five day visit July
23-27. This
was supposed to be a joyous visit in part, as we were
going to see the
contract for the installation of the solar water
project in NA and put up
half the money in order to get the
project going. Now we are really set
back. The real problem is
the continued suffering of the people.
The good news I suppose is
that we aren't going to be throwing more money
into the old
generator if it is kaput. Also we are not going to spend
$25000
on a solar project for a well that may be of no use
anymore. Mike says that
there is a clean water source about 2K
from NA, which we know about (I
think). I beleive it is where the
bomba de mescate is located. That's where
the people walk to when
there is no water. It is a hand/rope pump that is
cumbersome,
tiresome, slow, etc. but it has clean water. Or, maybe it
isn't
clean and no one ever tested there??? Frankly, a good
portion of Nica is
with bad water, so what are we to do? I dont'
see how La UNion, only 1K
away, has good water (or maybe it isn't
either) and NA is bad. We need
everyone to think, suggest,
provide ideas, etc. so we can move forward
somehow.
I remember
Dr. Meng saying that the arsenic isn't really in the deep
water
naturally but that arsenic is released from the crushing of
the rock when
deep wells, where water lies below a level of rock,
are perforated. In NA,
the first 40 feet or so was dirt. Then
they hit rock which was 60 - 65 feet.
The rate of descent was
slow, the big drill bit broke a few times, but
finally the
driller struck the water they've been using since Aug.
07.
Problem probably is that the arsenic gets into the water from
the crushing
of the rock I guess. I'm not the expert here, but I
just hope they can
locate a place where we can begin anew,
cheaply, with good water and then
solarize it from the outset. Be
well. Pray. PW
=
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