[fsf60k] Re: Solution/good news
- From: Peter White <pedro831@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: George Pardo <pardo123@xxxxxxxxx>, Michael AR Cipoletti <ikecip@xxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 11:58:25 -0400
Hola George. I will be with Mike for the next few days, and this NA water
problem will be one of our major tasks. Bill spoke of making sure of the
"replenishment" factor in any new water area. We're not buying anything
until all facts have been found and all agree that it is the next best step.
I still think there must be some utility for the present well in NA, even
with 40ppb. I don't know how they tested the well to get that count, did
they purge the well like we had done when we got a reading of 12ppb last
year or two years ago? I don't know. Also, the water with the 40ppb, if it
is that, can still be used for crops and bathing and maybe even animals,
just not human consumption. Maybe a smaller generator, not the big $4000
Pedro Lopez generator that Monica and Glen bought in July 07, might get the
water up for local use by biointensive gardens, other fields, and other
uses. And maybe the new site can provide the drinking water. We'll get all
the facts we can and return with hopefully plenty of info before any money
is put forth. Please ask any questions or make any comments over the next
few days to Mikes email so we can use them while there. I'll be returning on
Monday July 27. Lisa and Mike will be returning that day also. Lisa left
today for Nica, I leave tomorrow. PW
-----Original Message-----
From: George Pardo [mailto:pardo123@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 12:29 AM
To: Michael AR Cipoletti
Cc: richard wiltamuth; Peter White; billcpf@xxxxxxx;
lisapflanagan@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; fsf60k@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; skornblatt@xxxxxxxxx;
kelleystanford@xxxxxxxxx; abbyfl57@xxxxxxxxx; tlog0201@xxxxxxxxx;
clubgomes@xxxxxxx; jzima28@xxxxxxx; nycus@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Solution/good news
are you referring the existing well? Maybe a test can be done to
determine what is the max gallons per day that it can sustain. that is what
we did with the other well. We should really do this before we buy a parcel
of land. don't know if you were already panning to do this but a reminder,
just in case.
Ciao,
Jorge
On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 3:13 AM, Michael AR Cipoletti <ikecip@xxxxxxx>
wrote:
Well has a depth of 220 feet (approx)
mc
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 17, 2009, at 8:22 PM, richard wiltamuth <dwiltam@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
the well in cortizal seems to offer many advantages---less or no
arsenic, cooler, cheaper equipment and promise of longer equipment lifespan.
what is depth of water? is this the well with the wheel where we drew water
for nuevo a few years ago? would need to have the water tested several times
to make sure of arsenic and other potential contaminants. would need the
government to test and approve the water before we sink money into this
project. if this source is technically feasible, given the longer distance
the water has to travel, would be a good solution. maybe we could buy the
rights to pump a certain quantity of water rather than buying the land where
the well is located. easements would have to be arranged for the pipes.
am concerned about the nuevo community's ability to use the arsenic
filters as intended, given their track record with the diesel generator and
lack of literacy. the less equipment involved, the less that can go wrong.
mike, thanks for your tireless work on this; am glad you're on the
scene like an agua machine. you and the others will make a solution happen
much faster.
dick w.
On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 7:57 PM, Michael AR Cipoletti <ikecip@xxxxxxx>
wrote:
I met with Salvador Mora the gentleman from ENICAL that informed us
of the issue. I also spoke with several folks from the public health center
in UNAN LEon.. There seems to be a trend of rising arsenic levels in this
watertable due to a variety of factors. They forsee the problem worsening
over time.. There is however a good potential solution. In the community of
Cortizal located about 1000 meters from the location of the existing well
with clean cool water. The temperature of the water is under 80 degrees and
has tested clean for several years. Salvador conchita Marco and a couple of
the students will be driving to nuevo tomorrow morning to assess the
possibilities of the location and look into the land/ownership/selling
price..
This site if viable would enable us to use the solar pump we
originally were going to purchase (half the price/easier to obtain) and
could potentially benefit more people....
Salvador also said there is the possibilty of an electric generator
being wired in or a standard generator with a solar invertor to pump the
water.
Additionally the existing tubing tanks seem as if they would still
work all we would need to do is connect the tanks to the new water source.
I am happy with todays findings and the students and I will be
making this task a priority over the coming week.
I will send an update tomorrow afternoon. Wish us luck.
Michael
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 16, 2009, at 11:03 PM, George Pardo <pardo123@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Very bad news indeed.
As far as the arsenic is concerned, it can be taken out of the
water. We can get the materials from Dr. Meng to put together the filters,
probably for about $30 each. The chemicals I recall to be about $4-5$ per
year. This is a viable option if we trust the people to operate the filters
properly. They do already use a filter for bacteria. I also looked at a
point of distribution filter that would be put by the well but that source
is not yet totally available, although could be developed for the future.
The Dr. Meng (Steven's) filter is a sure thing. We could demonstrate the
filter to MINSA and get approval to open the well.
The water, even with 40ppb arsenic, is still suitable for bathing
and irrigation if it is not poured on the part of th plant that you eat and
not rinsed. If you irrigate at the roots no problem. Something like
lettuce or cabbage could be a problem if not watered properly. Corn would
be no problem because it is covered by the husk.
Pete I don't think the crushing of the rock has anything to do
with the arsenic just the depth of the well. The deeper wells are more
likely to have arsenic.
According to Dr. Meng there is no way to predict where there will
be clean water in a region where there is arsenic. You can have well with
900ppb and 30' away have a well that is acceptable. Drilling is trial and
error. The only way to be sure to get clean water is to drill where there
is already a good well. One option is to drill in a remote location that is
known to be good and pipe the water to NA. This will invlove additional
costs and additional complexity. This was suggested by the organization
that did the water project in Chac.
The main problem with drilling is the cost of drillling through
rock. If there is an area in NA, perhaps in the 20's where there is no
rock, it would be worth the chance to drill several wells to in order to
find a clean one. Maybe the water there may not be as hot.
The question in my mind would be, do we want to deal with the
arsenic and temperature of the water in NA or is it best to pipe the water
in from somewhere else where the temperature is moderate, letting us use
cheaper pumps, and without arsenic. The trade off would probably a high
tower tower and a larger tank and the possibly a couple of miles of pipe and
negotiating the rights to lay that pipe, possibly through public and private
land.
I think I would try to drill in the 20's at least 1 well and test
the temperature of the water and arsenic. If there is a lower temperature
that would enable us to use a cheaper pumping system and we could use the
Steven's filter for the aresenic. If we hit rock I would abandon that well
and perhaps look into piping the water in from a remote location.
Mike and Pete hopefully you can gather some data on the ground in
Nica that can be used to develop a good direction. Good luck at the very
least.
Please comment on the above options. Thanks.
George
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Peter White
<pedro831@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hola. Brace yourselves for sure. Mike arrived in Nica late
yesterday to the
news that the Nica govt. org., Minsa?, tested the water in NA
and found it
to be 40 ppb arsenic, too high considering the nat'l standard is
now 10 ppb.
They suggested closing the well. We have spent a lot of time on
this
project, including two years ago educating ourselves about
arenic from Dr.
Meng from the STevens Instit. of Tech. in Hoboken, NJ, who
believes and has
proven that arsenic can be removed cheaply, safely, etc. However
this may be
of no value if the Nica govt orders the well closed. The other
bad news is
that the two year old diesel motor is unable to be repaired. So
the people
are without water and walking for water I suppose. Mike is going
to be
asking a multitude of questions of the MINSA people and others,
and putting
his head together with Conchita, Martin, and others about what
the next
step/s are. Please think about this and get your questions to
Mike or me
asap. I am going down to Nica for a quick five day visit July
23-27. This
was supposed to be a joyous visit in part, as we were going to
see the
contract for the installation of the solar water project in NA
and put up
half the money in order to get the project going. Now we are
really set
back. The real problem is the continued suffering of the people.
The good news I suppose is that we aren't going to be throwing
more money
into the old generator if it is kaput. Also we are not going to
spend $25000
on a solar project for a well that may be of no use anymore.
Mike says that
there is a clean water source about 2K from NA, which we know
about (I
think). I beleive it is where the bomba de mescate is located.
That's where
the people walk to when there is no water. It is a hand/rope
pump that is
cumbersome, tiresome, slow, etc. but it has clean water. Or,
maybe it isn't
clean and no one ever tested there??? Frankly, a good portion of
Nica is
with bad water, so what are we to do? I dont' see how La UNion,
only 1K
away, has good water (or maybe it isn't either) and NA is bad.
We need
everyone to think, suggest, provide ideas, etc. so we can move
forward
somehow.
I remember Dr. Meng saying that the arsenic isn't really in the
deep water
naturally but that arsenic is released from the crushing of the
rock when
deep wells, where water lies below a level of rock, are
perforated. In NA,
the first 40 feet or so was dirt. Then they hit rock which was
60 - 65 feet.
The rate of descent was slow, the big drill bit broke a few
times, but
finally the driller struck the water they've been using since
Aug. 07.
Problem probably is that the arsenic gets into the water from
the crushing
of the rock I guess. I'm not the expert here, but I just hope
they can
locate a place where we can begin anew, cheaply, with good water
and then
solarize it from the outset. Be well. Pray. PW
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