Dear All, I agree with Daniel on one thing: The HOTS debate IS cold! But it is more than that - it is counterproductive. Here everyone is - getting all worked up and hot(s) under the collar, and sounding off (and it IS important that there is the ETNI list so that people can blow off stem, discuss different opinions, and make their opinions be known AMONG THE ENTI COMMUNITY). However THOSE are the key words: AMONG THE ETNI COMMUNITY. I have come to the point where I simply see something about HOTS and I click "delete" (except for this one - which I didn't so much as read as much as use the subject title) to say: in my opinion, the "discussion" of this topic on this list has played itself out. Some of us are in favor, others are against. The bottom line is: the program is beginning this year for 10th grade students. For those of you who object, (and you have organized yourselves very nicely to discuss among yourselves - as well as on this list- why you disagree, what you would change, etc.) the next responsible step (and the only step that could have ANY real influence) is to sit together, decide how YOU recommend the program be adjusted, and ask for a meeting with the Steering Committee. Of course, in order to do this intelligently, and to prove good will and actual understanding of WHY you oppose WHAT you are opposed to and how you suggest it be changed, would be to do so through knowledge and an intimate understanding of the program .... which is of course impossible because the Irgun has forbidden you from taking the program and forbidden you from trying it out in the classroom (which is really, IMHO what is getting those opposed to the program, "stuck"). As a teacher trainer, a counselor and someone active in the training of the program, it saddens me that such a group of intelligent teachers, who I really do admire and respect, have allowed themselves to be stuck in such an impossible corner by a union leader whose abilities and intentions I frankly am not impressed with. I am not having a discussion here. I severely disapprove of the unpleasant tone that has developed on this topic. It lacks respect and trust and collegiality that has always been the personality of this group. I believe it stems from the growing frustration of a feeling that people have of not being heard. But guys - you WILL not be "heard" here. Hence, I am simply writing a suggestion, regarding how things might actually be accomplished. Shabbat Shalom and Shana Tova Adele ----------------------------------------------- ** Etni homepage - http://www.etni.org ** for help - ask@xxxxxxxx ** ** to post to this list - etni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** -----------------------------------------------