fair enough, we are outvoted 4-2. We continue to play as is.
On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 5:56 PM, Laertes Papaspyrou <
bitoulis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Indeed it seems odd to be able to raise a corps in an area where enemy
corps already exist, but as the rules don't forbid this I say we keep the
simple version, i.e. to raise them anywhere when a corps crosses a border.
------------------------------
*From:* Makis Xiroyannis <makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx>
*To:* eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Sent:* Wednesday, 17 January 2018, 16:57
*Subject:* [eiagreek] Re: Rules discussion - insurrection
Theo can you give me the online references you are referring to?
Dimitri-Laerti your opinion?
On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 4:32 PM, Yannis Sykamias <ysykamias@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
I agree with Theo, there is nothing that prohibits the activation of an
insurrection corps in an area that already contains an enemy corps.
------------------------------
*From:* eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > on
behalf of T. B. <scotland_above_all@hotmail. com
<scotland_above_all@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 17, 2018 4:12:34 PM
*To:* eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [eiagreek] Re: Rules discussion - insurrection
*you can add the entire corps somewhere where the enemy has hostile corps
already?*
Based on what I've already read online (and in AH's General), yep, pretty
much 😉
But since they released a manual with errors I doubt that they would
proofread their magazines :P
------------------------------
*From:* eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > on
behalf of Makis Xiroyannis <makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* 17 January 2018 15:39:36
*To:* eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [eiagreek] Re: Rules discussion - insurrection
that's a fair point to make
so you cannot add reinforcements in the corps (which is only for prisoners
exchange anyway) but you can add the entire corps somewhere where the enemy
has hostile corps already?
On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 3:13 PM, Tiron <strategija@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Yes, the insurrection corps (1 or 2) can be placed anywhere in the
provinces of Illyria, Military Border, Transylvania and Hungary.
But 5.2.2.2.1 talks only about *Reinforcement phase*, about adding
factors to feudal and insurrection corps, not about placing feudal or
insurrection corps counter.
On 2018-01-17 12:14, Makis Xiroyannis wrote:
ok back to some rules discussion, sorry for that. I checked the rulebook
yesterday night, and again this morning but it is not 100% clear. I
remember we were not playing insurrection like this, and the rules seem to
suggest it differently but again it is ambiguous. I think it needs for all
of us to agree on an interpretation.
The rules for insurrection appear to allow placing simply *anywhere*
(check especially the red parts):
*10.1.4 AUSTRIAN INSURRECTION CORPS: The Austrian major power has two
insurrection corps available. *
*10.1.4.1 PLACING INSURRECTION CORPS: Immediately after an enemy corps,
cossack or freikorps has entered certain Austrian border provinces, the
triggers the possible placement of the insurrection corps and the Austrian
player may (if desired) place on-map either or both insurrection corps
anywhere within that province, at their current strength. These border
provinces are Illyria, Military Border, Transylvania and Hungary. These
border provinces are not eligible for insurrection corps activation if the
province is currently ceded.*
*10.1.4.1.1: If the corps are placed in the area containing the enemy
corps, that enemy corps (but not cossack or freikorps) would have to cease
its movement. *
*10.1.4.1.2: Insurrection corps need not be placed at the rst
opportunity and so could cut supply chains if corps, cossacks or freikorps
later activate their placement by crossing a border into an eligible
Austrian border province. *
*10.1.4.1.3: Insurrection corps may only move within these four border
provinces, even if they are ceded (subject to access rules-see 10.3). If
compelled to retreat out of these border provinces they must immediately
stand down.*
*10.1.4.1.4: Insurrection corps may not move during the same Turn they are
placed on the map. *
*10.1.4.2 USING INSURRECTION CORPS: In other respects insurrection corps
are treated similarly to Turkish feudal corps-they may not detach, absorb
or exchange factors; they may stand down during Austria's Land Movement
Step unless besieged or as a result of a retreat (see 10.1.4.1.3). However,
after standing down, they may not be placed on the map except by using the
activation procedure in 10.1.4.1. *
*10.1.4.3 * RAISING INSURRECTION CORPS FACTORS: Insurrection corps are
brought up to their full strength of 15 militia and 3 regular cavalry
factors (even if o map), only during the Levy Step of the December
Economic Phase, if not then besieged, so long as any one of the four border
provinces is Austrian controlled and contains no unbesieged enemy corps.
Unlike Turkish feudal corps, the factors in the insurrection corps are
treated as normal Austrian militia and regular cavalry factors (although
they may not be detached).*
*10.1.4.4 * INSURRECTION CORPS MAINTENANCE: Maintenance must be paid only
for insurrection corps actually on the map during a Money and Manpower
Expenditure Step. Insurrection corps not then on the map, even if placed
during the following three months, do not have to be purchased.*
But if you check the rules for placement, they do NOT allow placement of
insurrection somewhere where there are enemy corps already.
*5.2.2.2 CAMPAIGN ARMY FACTOR PLACEMENT:*
*5.2.2.2.1 Adding to Corps Inside Home Nations: Factors may be added to **any
unbesieged corps of the same nationality which has the capacity and is
**inside
its home nation (this excludes ceded provinces). Minor free state **factors
can be added in this way, but inside that minor free state's borders.**NOTE:
Feudal corps must be in their home province which currently*
*contains no unbesieged enemy corps (see 10.1.3) or off-map and **insurrection
corps must be in an Austrian-controlled border province which **currently
contains no unbesieged enemy corps (see 10. 1.4) or off-map during **an
Army Reinforcement Step feudal and insurrection corps will only **get
reinforcements from prisoner exchanges (normally they get new factors **during
December Levy Steps-see 8.10, 10.1.3.1 and 10.1.4.3).*
My interpretation of the above conflicting rules is that insurrection
corps *can* be placed in a territory when an enemy corps enters it, and
thereby immediately stop its movement, *but* only if enemy corps are not
*already* there. This also seems in line with sentence 10.1.4.1.1
referring to "*the* enemy corps, *that* enemy corps" suggesting, but not
clarifying it, that it refers to the corps just now entering the Austrian
territory and not corps already there.
According to our interpretation so far, when Turkey moves one corps from
Eszek to Karlstadt, Austria can place an insurrection corps in Karlstatd
and a battle will be fought with Turkey as the attacker, *although Turkey
already had 6 more corps stationed there from the beginning of the turn*!
I do not think that is the intended interpretation of the rules, and
according to this interpretation last turn battle in Karlstad should not
have happened.(its done now, I am discussing for the future)
But what the rest of you think?
