Hi George et al.,
I believe that DBT's treatment of "Bethesda" can
be traced to the old British Braille rule that an
initial "be" needed to be unstressed as well as a
separate syllable. At least that's presumably
the explanation for the word appearing without
the "be" contracted in Appendix III ("Guide to
Contracting") of the 2004 British Braille
manual. This approach was effectively
recommended for UEB in the 2006 report of the UEB
Contractions committee, which you can still see
as an unlinked file on the ICEB website at
http://www.iceb.org/uebcon01.html
In that report, note "group 12," which would
include "Bethesda", and that is one of the groups
that the report recommends be treated according
to the pre-UEB British practice. At the time the
report was accepted and the DBT tables were put together accordingly.
However, though I don't recall that the matter
was ever explicitly taken up by any committee
since, I see that the eventual UEB Rules document
does not include "unstressed" in the rule
applicable to "be" and of course that document
supersedes anything prior. So I suppose that use
of "be" in "Bethesda" is appropriate given the
UEB Rules as written -- perhaps likewise in
"Beowulf" and a few others that I'll have to
track down. It will be easy enough to change the
tables, and I expect to do so in short order --
say, a week or so -- but will BCC the chair of
the CMC on this reply just in case she thinks
some further consideration is required.
Cheers,
Joe Sullivan
At 2018-12-17 06:37, George Bell wrote:
Hi All,
James Bowden is our UKâs ICEB representative, and he responded as follows.
George
From: James Bowden
Sent: 17 December 2018 09:52
To: George Bell
Subject: RE: [duxuser] FW: [UEB] FW: Translation of the Name Bethesda
Hi George,
This word came up last week at ICEB.
Bethesda:
,2!sda
Please remember that whether it refers to the Biblical place or a place in the US, really doesn't matter. What matters is the syllables of the name which, according to MW is Be-thes-da.
Note, this has not been fully ratified internationally. Some countries may have differing opinions.
Hope this helps.
With best regards,
James.
-----Original Message-----
From: George Bell [<mailto:george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>mailto:george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 16 December 2018 21:29
To: <mailto:duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [duxuser] FW: [UEB] FW: Translation of the Name Bethesda
Just to keep you all up to date, I have referred this issue to Duxbury. I feel sure such a name (and the problems you all mention) will have come up with ICEB, but e will have to see what they say.
George
From: <mailto:duxuser-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>duxuser-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <<mailto:duxuser-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>duxuser-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Peg Mercer
Sent: 16 December 2018 19:53
To: <mailto:duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [duxuser] FW: [UEB] FW: Translation of the Name Bethesda
Forwarding my reply to Donâs message.
Peg
From: Peg Mercer <<mailto:pmercer51@xxxxxxx>pmercer51@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2018 11:52 AM
To: 'Unified English Braille (UEB) Discussion Listserv' <<mailto:ueb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>ueb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [UEB] FW: [duxuser] Translation of the Name Bethesda
Thank you so much, Don. This is very helpful.
Actually Bethesda in the book I just proofread does refer to the town near Washington DC. So according to your note, I presume usage of âbeâ would be correct as per UEB sections 10.6.1 and 10.6.2.
I will reiterate my comment re Duxburyâs translation that it is interesting that in the template for the former EBAE code, Bethesda is translated using âbeâ.
Peg
From: UEB <<mailto:ueb-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>ueb-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Donald Winiecki via UEB
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2018 5:51 AM
To: Unified English Braille (UEB) Discussion Listserv <<mailto:ueb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>ueb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Donald Winiecki <<mailto:dwiniecki@xxxxxxxxxx>dwiniecki@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [UEB] FW: [duxuser] Translation of the Name Bethesda
In the U.S. there is no authoritative dictionary analogous to the Maquarie dictionary in Australia, but I did consult the Merriam-Webster online dictionary and it indicates the 'be' in 'Bethesda' is the first syllable: <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Bethesda>https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Bethesda <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Bethesda>
Wictionary is not as clear: <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Bethesda>https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Bethesda <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Bethesda>
However, the town of Bethesda ends up in the U.S. news quite a bit because of its proximity to Washington, D.C. and newsreaders pronounce it with three syllables: bÉ-Ëthez-dÉ.
So I guess we would have to ask if the word in Peg's text is in reference to the town near Washington, D.C., the biblical pool in Jerusalem, or something else?
For what it's worth, the transcription training system operated by the U.S. National Federation of the Blind and National Library Service has several occasions where one has to consult a dictionary for this sort of issue. I end up transcribing mostly academic and technical documents, and regularly have to consult a number of dictionaries to get things right.
_don
On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 6:17 PM Peg Mercer via UEB <<mailto:ueb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>ueb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hello, Everyone,
FYI, Iâm sending along the message I just posted to the Duxbury users list about DBTâs omission of the lower groupsign âbbeâ.
My best wishes to you all for the holidays.
Peg
From: <mailto:duxuser-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>duxuser-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <<mailto:duxuser-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>duxuser-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Peg Mercer
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 5:11 PM
To: <mailto:duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [duxuser] Translation of the Name Bethesda
Hi, Everyone,
Today I came across the name Bethesda brailed without the lower groupsign âbeâ and notice that Duxbury 12.2 translates the name without the âbeâ groupsign. UEB sections 10.6.1 and 10.6.2 state to use the âbeâ groupsign when the letters âbeâ form the first syllable and when the letters âbeâ are followed by a letter or contraction.
I am therefore asking whether Duxburyâs omission of the groupsign âbeâ in Bethesda is an error in the UEB translation template? I did notice that the contraction is used when translating with the former EBAE template.
Thanks.
All the best to you all for the holidays.
Regards,
Peg Mercer
604-736-5049 (home)
604-218-3678 (cell)
<mailto:Pmercer51@xxxxxxx>Pmercer51@xxxxxxx
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