[dd251] Re: Flexible Pipe
- From: Jeannette Baxter <j.baxter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <dd251@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:17:31 +0100
on 29/1/03 8:24, rapidrop@xxxxxxxxxxx at rapidrop@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>=20
> Jeannete,
>=20
> As you may know Rapidrop is our own brand of corrugated stainless flexibl=
e
> sprinkler connections LPCB approved and UL Listed which are ideal for
> armover connections to sprinklers in suspended ceilings. We have not
> offered them for Residential for various reasons (real or perceived). Lo=
w
> supply pressure and pressure loss being amongst them.
>=20
> I only just found out about the forum and joined this last weekend so I d=
o
> not know your questions. If you let me know I will see if we can offer a
> solution or explain why we can't.
>=20
> Brgds
> Alan Stimpson
> Fivalco Ltd.
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeannette Baxter" <j.baxter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <dd251@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 8:28 PM
> Subject: [dd251] Re: Flexible Pipe
>=20
>=20
>>=20
>> on 28/1/03 12:38 pm, Gill, Chris at GillC@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
>>=20
>>> =3D20
>>> Jeannette
>>> =3D20
>>> You are correct in saying that pipework in these risks is a critical
> issu=3D
>> e
>>> but we are concerned that there are some in the industry out for a quic=
k
>>> fix. Our experience with new piping products for sprinkler systems has
>>> shown that great care has to be taken to ensure that not only the
> product=3D
>> s
>>> are suitable but that the installation is carried out correctly. I'll
>>> address these issues separately:
>>> =3D20
>>> Product - given the issues surrounding whether to protect the entire
>>> residential/domestic property or not, the matter of running sprinkler
>>> pipework through unprotected areas needs consideration, approved CPVC
>>> pipework for instance has limitations placed upon its use where it is
>>> exposed (see TB32) and similar limitations would have to be placed on
> its
>>> use in residential/domestic properties.
>>> =3D20
>>> The flexible drop pipes that we have approved are also subject to
>>> limitations, this time related to pressure loss. Given that many
> flexibl=3D
>> e
>>> pipes are of a corrugated type and that with DD251 systems we are at th=
e
>>> already running with very low pressures this issue becomes very
> important=3D
>> .
>>> How is the different hydraulic nature of flexile pipe to be taken
> account=3D
>> of
>>> in design?
>>> =3D20
>>> Other issues such as mechanical damage, supports and operating
> temperatur=3D
>> es
>>> also need to be considered.
>>> =3D20
>>> I believe someone mentioned the use of lay flay hose for sprinkler
> system=3D
>> s;
>>> this simply isn't an option here, lay flat hose is designed to run at
> muc=3D
>> h
>>> greater flow and pressure which can deal with most kinks etc which may
>>> occur. This wouldn't be the case in a residential/domestic property.
> Ri=3D
>> gid
>>> hose may be a possibility as this may in fact perform better
> hydraulicall=3D
>> y
>>> than a rigid system, but the proper assessments need to be carried out.
>>> =3D20
>>> =3D20
>>> Installation: We would all accept that the installation of sprinkler
>>> systems requires a greater deal of care and understanding than a
> plumbing
>>> system. Given that even in the relatively well supervised world of
> stand=3D
>> ard
>>> sprinkler installations we hear of terrible incidents of lack of care
> (CP=3D
>> VC
>>> systems only being dry fitted for instance) we cannot stress how
> importan=3D
>> t
>>> it is that the proper training be given to designers and installers of
> th=3D
>> ese
>>> systems, particularly if flexible pipework becomes prevalent.
>>> =3D20
>>> =3D20
>>> We are totally in support of the development of residential/domestic
>>> sprinkler protection but we must be careful not to compromise on
> performa=3D
>> nce
>>> in order to fit the existing products into a new risk.
>>> =3D20
>>> Regards,
>>> =3D20
>>> Chris Gill
>>> Technical Manager
>>> For and on behalf of, LPCB
>>> =3D20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Jeannette Baxter [mailto:j.baxter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>> Sent: 28 January 2003 10:48
>>> To: dd251@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [dd251] Flexible Pipe
>>> =3D20
>>> =3D20
>>> I'm not sure whether or not my mails have been posted to this site as i=
t
> =3D
>> has
>>> all gone very quiet on this issue.
>>> =3D20
>>> Will somebody out there please, please, come up with the solution to
> this
>>> real problem which will stop the progress of domestic and residential
>>> sprinklers in new build.
>>> =3D20
>>> Are there none of you out there who can answer the questions I raised
>>> yesterday?
>>> =3D20
>>>=20
> =3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=
3D=3D
> 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3=
D=3D3
> D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
>>> Residential Sprinkler Forum
>>> Archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/dd251
>>> WebSite: www.dd251.org.uk
>>> To unsubscribe from the list, send an email to
>>> dd251-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx with "unsubscribe" in the Subject line or
>>> unsubscribe from the website www.dd251.org.uk
>>> =3D20
>>> =3D20
>>> =3D20
>>> Privileged and confidential information and/or copyright material may b=
e
>>> contained in this e-mail. The information and material is intended for
> t=3D
>> he
>>> use of the intended addressee only. If you are not the intended
> addresse=3D
>> e
>>> you may not copy or deliver it to anyone else or use it in any
> unauthoris=3D
>> ed
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s
>>> e-mail by mistake, please advise the sender immediately by return e-mai=
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> =3D
>> and
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>>> =3D20
>>> =3D20
>>>=20
> =3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=
3D=3D
> 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3=
D=3D3
> D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
>>> Residential Sprinkler Forum
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>>> WebSite: www.dd251.org.uk
>>> To unsubscribe from the list, send an email to
>>> dd251-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx with =3D93unsubscribe=3D94 in the Subject line
> or
>>> unsubscribe from the website www.dd251.org.uk
>>> =3D20
>>> =3D20
>> Thank you Chris for a considered response.
>> Still doesn't solve the problem, however. And I would still like to kno=
w
>> how companies installing watermist systems are getting round the problem
> of
>> these joists. Please, tell us all what piping you are using so that we c=
an
>> also benefit from your expertise in this area - surely it's not a great
>> secret is it? Is this not a forum to share information for the good of
> thi=3D
>> s
>> new market? And as Brian Blessed said earlier, there is plenty to go
> around
>> and we should not be so "covetous" of such information.
>>=20
>>=20
>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> Residential Sprinkler Forum
>> Archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/dd251
>> WebSite: www.dd251.org.uk
>> To unsubscribe from the list, send an email to
>> dd251-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx with "unsubscribe" in the Subject line or
>> unsubscribe from the website www.dd251.org.uk
>>=20
>>=20
>=20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Residential Sprinkler Forum
> Archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/dd251
> WebSite: www.dd251.org.uk
> To unsubscribe from the list, send an email to
> dd251-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx with =93unsubscribe=94 in the Subject line or
> unsubscribe from the website www.dd251.org.uk
>=20
>=20
Thank you Alan for your info. I'm not sure whether rapidrop will help or
not, but perhaps you could let me have some info in the post.
My question was how do we overcome the problem of installing pipework where
there are these fabricated joists (TJI's?) as there are limitations to
drilling/notching. As so many housebuilders are now using these, it seems t=
o
be a problem to use anything other than a flexible plastic pipe (or so I am
led to believe). =20
What are the problems with pressure losses - I can see that if their use
poses problems with the hydraulics then that could in many instances
preclude their use (perhaps not so much if a tank is installed?) What sizes
are available? And are they not expensive compared to copper/CPVC? That
would also be a problem at the moment.
=20
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