Gyrolights (was Re: Domes and icicle breaker cars)
- From: "crip1978" <vic@xxxxxx>
- To: cpsig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 18:01:42 -0000
--- In cpsig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Doug Cummings" <DougCummings@...> wrote:
<snip>
--Again I bring up the point, if the Gryolights were to make the trains more
visible why did they not use them on ALL trains. Thus, IMHO, visibility to
the public was not the main reason they used the roof mounted gryolights.
The fact remains that generally speaking they used them only on the Canadian
and later on the RDC's. No other passenger trains or freights trains used
them with the possible exception of whenever the Dominion or another train
may have had an FP as lead locomotive. Until now their use on the RDC's has
not been a subject of discussion and we should leave it out of the
discussion. But if you want to I totally agree with your comments that in
that instance there was a definite safety issue involved.
<snip>
Why weren't they used on ALL trains?
Speed restrictions on ALL freight trains precluded their need thereon. As to
PSGR trains, they WERE used on ALL trains at some point or other, just like the
Canadian. I've seen them on
The Overseas
The Chicagoan
The Atlantic Limited
The Viger and
The Laurier
being some of our name trains off the top of my head. And unnamed trains like
the Montreal and Toronto commuter trains; all DAR psgr trains, others in Ottawa
and Quebec service (incl QC), etc. (Perhaps those on LE&N and GRR may be
excluded but like frt trains, these didn't usually move very fast IIRC!) I
won't bother getting into fgn line trains we hosted (NYC D&H TH&B) some of
which used them as much as a decade before they were introduced on the CPR,
most notably NYC. Consider too that there were only a couple of major
manufacturers and they could only make so many per day.
It seems worthy to now repeat (and edit) what I posted a few days ago under
another subject title in this group:
"A few words about Gyrolites and Marslights:
All CPR RDC trains were equipped with Gyro-lights / Mars-lights by the late
60's. (Personal observations.) And RDC's weren't ever assigned to The
Canadian, before the VIA daze (which attempted their use E of Sudbury, on the
so-called Montreal connxn). These were mounted on the front doors of the
leading RDC unit.
It's a common misconception that Mars made Figure 8 lights and their
competitors made the others. Mars made regular single-bulb rotating headlights
before and after their Figure 8 design (which was never patented). Their
competitors reportedly made Figure 8 models too.
I've seen both types in operation (on many roads) and ran some too (on CRI&P).
IIRC the RI mounted them on their E-8's in the regular headlight position, and
the headlights were mounted on the front nose door. They were excellent and
superb as early public warnings, especially for public crossings at grade not
adequately protected by gates, and so confirmed by statistics reported to the
FRA. They also usually served well alerting oprs at stations behind curves to
accurately report an equipped trains' location to a train dispr for a possible
last minute train order, usually improving a meet pass or run ahead.
* (Paragraph added) To say someone could see a headlight before, or as soon
as, seeing a Gyro light, tells you've had very limited exposure to them in
operation if any at all.
Their primary benefit was safety, and operating rule books allowed them to be
put in stationary position and used as regular headlights in cases of headlight
failures. I'm not sure when CP started using them, but they were being
manufactured in the US since sometime in the 40's, maybe 1940.
Generally, they were useless in tunnels, except as substitute headlights. But,
usually no harm's done leaving them on so they're usually just left on while
passing thru tunnels. Rarely, some engineers were adversely affected by the
lights' "dizzying reflections" in tunnels and these engrs turned them off.
The rule against this was of limited application, unintended and, to my
knowledge, never enforced. See, 1962 UCOR §§ 17A, 17D. THEREFORE their use,
generally, was NOT optional on engs so equipped.
Re CP vs UP train speeds. Most of our main track between Thunder Bay and
Calgary allowed speeds as fast as anywhere on the UP. (Also on portions of the
Adirondack Sub.) Where unattainable was limited to FP7's attempting to
increase speed above 89/90 mph while going uphill (e.g., Medicine Hat); and
instances of inadequate pwr for train weight / length, as in the case of an eng
failure.
The only road now [reportedly still] using Gyrolights / Marslights is METRA --
the Chicago commuter trains. FRA regulations allow for the use of one such
gyrolight in lieu of two ditch lights on locos moving faster than 20 mph. Now
49 CFR § 229.125(d).
IMO just one of these rotating headlights is far better than any number of
ditch lights on the point of a train, safety-wise.
VRP
----------------------end of prior post------------------------
Ironically, it was a derailment involving one or more fatalities on our
Thompson Sub that set the wheels in motion to equip and require ditch lights on
all frt trains throughout the continent, and the current FRA regulation (law).
IMO, based on substantial experience, that they needed only to expand the use
of gyro lights.
And, FWIW, it isn't prudent to rely on train registers at / from intermediate
stations for the purpose of eng consists because in many if not most such cases
only the leading unit is recorded (registered). Train registers at terminal
stations USUALLY have complete eng consists; a notable exception being trains
with so many units as to render inadequate space to register them all -- a
daily occurrence [at one time] in the Montreal area where some of our RDC
commuter trains consisted of nine or more units.
VRP
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