That is very helpful Elmar! Thank you.
Your brief description is perfectly understandable; it appears shamanic
work translates almost exactly to constellations.
all the best
Heiki
On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 6:31 PM, Elmar Dornberger
elmar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [ConstellationTalk] <
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dear Heiki
I have been working with this kind of phenomenon for probably over ten
years now. In groups, private sessions with mats on the floor and phone
sessions using sticky notes or pieces of paper. The medium does not matter.
I can't give you a script of the conversation since it differs every time.
The gist is that you have to convince the energy (or soul part) to either
leave if they are unwanted or to integrate if they have been lost.
Asking the one to leave can only be done when it is pointed out that their
existence in this current body is not a happy one for either party. Also
you will have to make a compelling case that their is a better place for
them in the next (level of being, heaven, next world - all depending on
your own believe and that of the entity). When they agree to give this a
try you lead them to an imaginary light that comes from this other place
where they will be taken care off. You lead them to a certain point and
have them go by themselves for a few more steps (and before the
representative disappear into the void you have to have them step out of
their role). It will be very compelling for them to keep going. I often
also talk about light beings coming from the other side to greet them and
guide them on their way. I ask them during the process if they see such
beings and they do and then I let them on their way.
I would suggest you do this in your mind over and over until you feel
comfortable with this. If you hesitate and are not convinced that this can
work, it might not. I have trained many people in this process and it does
take practice.
I hope this helps,
Yours,
Elmar
Office
303 818 5969
HemisphereConsulting.com <http://www.HemisphereConsulting.com/>
"When you hold on to your history,
you do it at the expense of your destiny."
- Bishop T.D. Jakes
On Apr 16, 2015, at 10:02 PM, Heiki Eesmaa heiki.eesmaa@xxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Elmar,
from another perspective, some entities are chunks of lost souls attached
to client. That's what I call fragments. Hope this clarifies why I am
'confusing' them.
Now what I am interested in is what tools you use in the dialogue you
mention? I can imagine how to conduct this journeying even though I
haven't. Are you speaking from experience of using representatives for
working with entities?
All the best
Heiki
On Apr 17, 2015 2:58 AM, "Elmar Dornberger elmar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk]" <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
why
Dear Heiki
I am getting very confused when I am reading this thread. Maybe it is
because I had a long day and I am tired. I still feel like I need to
respond.
There is loss of soul and there is possession of an entity. They might
seem similar and they are very different.
Loss of souls needs to be integrated back into the self and that feels
better for the client. And before that even happens we need to find out
this soul (or part of it depending on your believe) has left in the first7
place. There might need to be some conversation and negotiation for the
soul to come back and stay. (There are some culture that believe we have
souls with different purposes and jobs) - This concept has made a lot ofdead
sense to me working with this subject for many years now.
The other part is invasive entities that can attach themselves to humans
at a time when the person is sick or otherwise weak. They can hang around
for quite some time sort of in the background, like a leech draining once
energy. Some of these are lost souls that are actually lost from a sudden
death and now are looking for a new host. You can have interesting
conversation with them. Asking them if they know if they are alive or
and the answer is often confusing because they don't know that they arehttp://www.HemisphereConsulting.com/
actually dead. Then you negotiate if they would be willing to leave to go
to a better place. If they agree you guide them to the light and release
them into the light.
I think you get the picture. This is the little abbreviated version.
Usually if this is what the client experienced they feel relieve either
immediately or within a couple of days.
All the best,
Elmar
Office
303 818 5969
HemisphereConsulting.com <http://hemisphereconsulting.com/> <
<http://www.hemisphereconsulting.com/>>
of
"When you hold on to your history,
you do it at the expense of your destiny."
- Bishop T.D. Jakes
On Apr 16, 2015, at 9:33 AM, Heiki Eesmaa heiki.eesmaa@xxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thank you Reva for the link!
I certainly agree that taking the realms of the living and the dead as a
part of a single reality, an 'unus mundus', is a helpful frame.
But even in shamanic work -- at least what little I saw and did a bunch
years ago -- the living and the dead have their own domains. Some of thewhere
work was leading the restless dead to the border of the beyond, from
on the shaman itself would not journey. But from there, one could see theanybody
dead person journeying on on its own.
Now this distinction of realms of living and the dead complicates the
phenomenon of soul loss a bit more. A fragment does not really have
to go back to, at least not in the realm of the living. It is parasitingon
the living.not
Some of the information on fragments I have was received orally, but it
was generally similar to what I read in Samuel Sagan's book "Entities:
Parasites of the Energy Body".
So one consideration on this matter I have come up with is to maybe be
strengthen connection to ancestors with difficult destinies so much. Fromwas
another angle it seems to be the same theme as re-traumatization (or not,
is so, can anybody spell out the distinctions?)
I witnessed one constellation where the client seemed to partly improve
(due to restoration of systemic order) but at the same time there were
phenomena that to me indicated the presence of a fragment that perhaps
'stirred', at least something was making the client worse. Will have tosee
what else appears and how this develops.some
all the best
Heiki
On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Reva Hamilton 22reva@xxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
Good morning Heiki
I believe being able to understand "fragmentation" allows us to open up
to possibilities...Sandra Ingerman explains a Shamanic perspective. In
her video( maybe half way ) her clarity resonates with me. Another way I
like to visualize this image of fragmentation is to think of a tapestry.
imagine the threads Separate yet connected. Some may have come loose,
invitationmay have been destroyed. The beauty of constellation work is the
ofto reweave the tapestry. To assist in co-creating a sense of vibrant ,
beautiful, cohesive flow of the clients tapestry. increasing their flow
Falllove...for themselves, their family, their community and the multiverse.
When asking the clients to say"is it comfortable or possible to say... i
invite you..???
You ask a great question and I appreciate your insight. Food for
thought...THANKS
Sincerely
Reva Hamilton
22reva@xxxxxxxxx
Sandra Ingerman
*View a free video clip from Sandra Ingerman's:*
* Listen with Your Heart: Sandra Ingerman on Shamanism, Healing and
Nature*
*TO VIEW SANDRA'S FREE VIDEO CLICK HERE*
<http://www.sandraingerman.com/Untitled-1.html>
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On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 3:28 AM, Heiki Eesmaa heiki.eesmaa@xxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I have a question to maybe those who work from a more intuitive or
shamanic perspective.
How does the phenomenon of fragments of disembodied people ("entities",
"sub-tenants") play together with systemic order? Can we work with
fragments directly in constellation?
I simply have observed that in the process of including and taking in a
specific person that apparently created fragments, the situation is
worsened. Watching my co-students work, I am particularly struck at how
dangerous sentences like "I give you a good place in my heart" can be
:)such a situation.
From a more psychological perspective it is re-traumatization, I guess
Hope the above makes some sense to somebody.
all the best
Heiki
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
