Re: [ConstellationTalk] Soul Fragments in Constellation Work
- From: Elmar Dornberger <elmar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 17:58:03 -0600
Dear Heiki
I am getting very confused when I am reading this thread. Maybe it is because I had a long day and I am tired. I still feel like I need to respond.
There is loss of soul and there is possession of an entity. They might seem similar and they are very different. Loss of souls needs to be integrated back into the self and that feels better for the client. And before that even happens we need to find out why this soul (or part of it depending on your believe) has left in the first place. There might need to be some conversation and negotiation for the soul to come back and stay. (There are some culture that believe we have 7 souls with different purposes and jobs) - This concept has made a lot of sense to me working with this subject for many years now.
The other part is invasive entities that can attach themselves to humans at a time when the person is sick or otherwise weak. They can hang around for quite some time sort of in the background, like a leech draining once energy. Some of these are lost souls that are actually lost from a sudden death and now are looking for a new host. You can have interesting conversation with them. Asking them if they know if they are alive or dead and the answer is often confusing because they don't know that they are actually dead. Then you negotiate if they would be willing to leave to go to a better place. If they agree you guide them to the light and release them into the light.
I think you get the picture. This is the little abbreviated version. Usually if this is what the client experienced they feel relieve either immediately or within a couple of days.
All the best,Elmar
"When you hold on to your history,you do it at the expense of your destiny." - Bishop T.D. Jakes
On Apr 16, 2015, at 9:33 AM, Heiki Eesmaa heiki.eesmaa@xxxxxxxxx [ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thank you Reva for the link!
I certainly agree that taking the realms of the living and the dead as a part of a single reality, an 'unus mundus', is a helpful frame.
But even in shamanic work -- at least what little I saw and did a bunch of years ago -- the living and the dead have their own domains. Some of the work was leading the restless dead to the border of the beyond, from where on the shaman itself would not journey. But from there, one could see the dead person journeying on on its own.
Now this distinction of realms of living and the dead complicates the phenomenon of soul loss a bit more. A fragment does not really have anybody to go back to, at least not in the realm of the living. It is parasiting on the living.
Some of the information on fragments I have was received orally, but it was generally similar to what I read in Samuel Sagan's book "Entities: Parasites of the Energy Body".
So one consideration on this matter I have come up with is to maybe be not strengthen connection to ancestors with difficult destinies so much. From another angle it seems to be the same theme as re-traumatization (or not, is so, can anybody spell out the distinctions?)
I witnessed one constellation where the client seemed to partly improve (due to restoration of systemic order) but at the same time there were phenomena that to me indicated the presence of a fragment that perhaps was 'stirred', at least something was making the client worse. Will have to see what else appears and how this develops.
all the best
Heiki
On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Reva Hamilton 22reva@xxxxxxxxx [ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
Good morning HeikiI believe being able to understand "fragmentation" allows us to open up to possibilities...Sandra Ingerman explains a Shamanic perspective. In her video( maybe half way ) her clarity resonates with me. Another way I like to visualize this image of fragmentation is to think of a tapestry. imagine the threads Separate yet connected. Some may have come loose, some may have been destroyed. The beauty of constellation work is the invitation to reweave the tapestry. To assist in co-creating a sense of vibrant , beautiful, cohesive flow of the clients tapestry. increasing their flow of love...for themselves, their family, their community and the multiverse.When asking the clients to say"is it comfortable or possible to say... i invite you..???You ask a great question and I appreciate your insight. Food for thought...THANKSSincerely Reva Hamilton22reva@xxxxxxxxx
Sandra Ingerman, MA, is the author of Soul Retrieval: Mending the Fragmented Self, Welcome Home: Following Your Soul’s Journey Home, A Fall to Grace, Medicine for the Earth: How to Transform Personal and Environmental Toxins, Shamanic Journeying: A Beginner’s Guide, and How to Heal Toxic Thoughts: Simple Tools for Personal Transformation. She is the author of “The Soul Retrieval Journey” “The Beginner’s Guide to Shamanic Journeying” and “Miracles for the Earth” lecture programs produced by Sounds True. To get more information or to order Sandra Ingerman's books, audios or videos, click on the picture below of the item you are interested in or click here to go the website page.
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Sandra Ingerman teaches workshops internationally on shamanic journeying, healing, and reversing environmental pollution using spiritual methods. She has trained and founded an international alliance of Medicine for the Earth Teachers andshamanic teachers. Sandra is recognized for bridging ancient cross-cultural healing methods into our modern culture addressing the needs of our times. Sandra is a licensed Marriage and Family therapist and Professional Mental Health Counselor. She is also a board certified expert on traumatic stress as well as certified in acute traumatic stress management.
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On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 3:28 AM, Heiki Eesmaa heiki.eesmaa@xxxxxxxxx [ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I have a question to maybe those who work from a more intuitive or shamanic perspective.
How does the phenomenon of fragments of disembodied people ("entities", "sub-tenants") play together with systemic order? Can we work with fragments directly in constellation?
I simply have observed that in the process of including and taking in a specific person that apparently created fragments, the situation is worsened. Watching my co-students work, I am particularly struck at how dangerous sentences like "I give you a good place in my heart" can be in such a situation.
From a more psychological perspective it is re-traumatization, I guess :)
Hope the above makes some sense to somebody.
all the best
Heiki
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