In my mind, Gary, the 'what else' is what I started this asking....in part.
My view is as some others have shared....that conclusory statements such as
"certified", "expert", "specialist" help nobody except those who are trying
to play themselves up. I lean toward, "I am committed to Collaborative
Practice. I have taken several trainings and am continuing always to get
better at this valuable and challenging process. Here are some of my
learning and teaching experiences." Something like that.
Those who choose to use the summary claim, without actually describing how
or by whom s/he is 'certified', at least in some areas seems to be open to
disciplinary actions. Which brings me back to the part of my original
post.....who takes action and what action?
Gary, What I hear in what your are asking suggests to me 'somebody' making
an assessment of the abilities of an individual professional. I'm not aware
of anyone doing that. Zat right? Say more....
And just to be clear, personally I don't consider additional 'training'
requirements to be even remotely related to the direct assessment of the
skills/abilities of an individual. Particularly if none of the required
trainings involves any kind of test or assessment.
*InJoy!*
*cMr*
*Collaborative Practice Chicago*
*Divorce Without Warfare*
*carl Michael rossi, M.A. J.D., L.P.C.
Attorney, Mediator, Coach, Counselor*
*773-292-3456*
*cMr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx* <cMr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*www.CPChicago.net <http://www.cpchicago.net/>*
Executive Director, *Collaborative Practice Professionals of
Illinois*<http://cppillinois.com/>
*Apply Collaborative Practice to many types of disputes. Training available
here <http://www.slideshare.net/carlMichaelrossi/flyer-abney>.*
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Gary Direnfeld
<gary@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
Agreed Sherri,
But for me the issue is helping the general public discriminate between
those who hold some measure of expertise in a given area of practice from
those who may make spurious claims to hold expertise and hence provide
inadequate service in an area they purport to provide. So somehow, we need
to help the general public, the users of Collaborative service, discriminate
between practitioners laying claim to the service.
Hence, while we seem to agree that "certified" has limitations in
projecting come measure of expertise, training or competency, the question
remains, "What else?"
While I do offer suggestions to the general public in terms of questions to
ask of a considered service provider, there are many persons who are
intimidated to ask those questions. Hence and in my opinion, the majority of
the general public rely upon our claims and titles.
So, how do we protect the public and quite frankly our image in the eyes of
the public, and help them chose or discriminate between persons who purport
to provide Collaborative services?
Best,
Gary
Gary Direnfeld, MSW, RSW
Interaction Consultants and I Promise Program Inc.
20 Suter Crescent,
Dundas, Ontario, Canada L9H 6R5
(905) 628-4847
gary@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Parenting: www.yoursocialworker.com
Teen safe driving: www.ipromiseprogram.com
Gary Direnfeld is a social worker and expert on matters of family life.
Courts in Ontario, Canada, have deemed Gary an expert on child development,
parent-child relations, marital and family therapy, custody and access
recommendations, social work and an expert for the purpose of giving a
critique on a Section 112 (social work) report.
Services include counselling, mediation, assessments, assessment critiques
and workshops. Go to his website to read his many articles and view clips of
television and radio appearances: www.yoursocialworker.com
I am with Stu. I can sit in my garage all night, but that will not turn
me into a car. Â A person can sit in as many classes, trainings, etc. as are
offered, but that will never make him or her a collaborative lawyer.Â
Certification may guarantee that the person can give lip service to a
subject, but it cannot guarantee the superior execution of an action
pertaining to the subject.
Sherrie R. Abney
Law Offices of Sherrie R. Abney
2840 Keller Springs Road, Ste. 204
Carrollton, Texas 75006
972-417-7198 phone
972-417-9655 fax
This e-mail message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
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this information unless you are an addressee. If you have received this
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immediately. Thank you.
From: CollabLaw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:CollabLaw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of StuWbb@xxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 9:48 AM
To: CollabLaw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: civilcollaborative@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; cppil@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx;
cpchicago@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [CollabLaw] Certifiable ??
I personally am not comfortable with the "certified' label.
Stu
-----Original Message-----
From: dmurch1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: CollabLaw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Civil Collaborative Law Group <civilcollaborative@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
cppil@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; carl Michael rossi <cpchicago@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sat, Jan 22, 2011 11:02 am
Subject: Re: [CollabLaw] Certifiable ??
Carl Michael:
New York has a similar rule and we are not allowed to hold ourselves
out as experts or specialists.
It makes me uncomfortable to think of myself as either an expert or a
specialist.
As a collaborative lawyer, I do not represent clients in court.
Attending trainings and doing a lot of cases (hopefully well) still
gives me only the same opportunity to do the next case as everyone
else. How many times have you worked with collaborators that have less
experience, and they knock your socks off with mad skills? How many
times have you worked with litigators disguised by a collaborative
smile?
Best,
Dave Murch
Rochester, NY January 22nd, 2011
---- carl Michael rossi <cpchicago@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
So I'm curious, do any of you use the term 'certified' or somethingPractice
similar in describing yourself to the public as a Collaborative
Professional?in
What other descriptions do people use in connection with "I engage
Collaborative Practice"?their
Do any practice groups out there state that they are 'certifying'
members in Collaborative Practice? Any trainers? I know that mosttrainers
provide a 'certificate of attendance', are any seeing that as aa
'Certification' of the attendee?
Are there ethics or other rules in your jurisdiction regarding such
claim?been taken
And, of course the hard one, are there any 'actions' that have
by anyone in connection with such a claim by a professional tosuggest s/he
might clarify or adjust their statement?of
thoughts? comments? Is this only a 'lawyer' issue?
I ask because it seems to me I'm seeing an increase in the number
professionals who are stating that they are 'Certified' or areE.D. of
'Specialists' in Collaborative Practice. [As moderator here, and as
our practice group, I get to look at a lot of CP websites. Indeed Isaw one
the other day that claimed the professional was *'Certified' by the'news'
International Academy of Collaborative Professionals*....this came as
to me!]prohibiting
Maybe it depends on the jurisdiction?
But I've even seen such claims here in Illinois where the rule
such a statement is pretty clear:not
* RULE 7.4: COMMUNICATION OF FIELDS OF PRACTICE AND SPECIALIZATION*
(2) the reference must state that the Supreme Court of Illinois does
recognize certifications of specialties in the practice of law andthat the
certificate, award or recognition is not a requirement to practicelaw in
Illinois.certifications of
(a) A lawyer may communicate the fact that the lawyer does or does not
practice in particular fields of law.
(b) *The Supreme Court of Illinois does not recognize
specialties in the practice of law, nor does it recognizecertifications of
expertise in any phase of the practice of law by any agency,governmental or
private, or by any group, organization or association.* A lawyeradmitted to
engage in patent practice before the United States Patent andTrademark
Office may use the designation "Patent Attorney" or a substantiallysimilar
designation.issued to
(c) Except when identifying certificates, awards or recognitions
him or her by an agency or organization, *a lawyer may not use theterms
"certified,'' "specialist,'' "expert,'' or any other, similar terms togovernmental or
describe his qualifications as a lawyer or his qualifications in any
subspecialty of the law*. If such terms are used to identify any
certificates, awards or recognitions issued by any agency,
private, or by any group, organization or association, the referencemust
meet the following requirements:not
(1) the reference must be truthful and verifiable and may not be
misleading in violation of Rule 7.1;
(2) *the reference must state that the Supreme Court of Illinois does
recognize certifications of specialties* in the practice of law andthat the
certificate, award or recognition is not a requirement to practicelaw in
Illinois.lawyer
[7.1 states:
A lawyer shall not make a false or misleading communication about the
or the lawyer’s services. A communication is false or misleading if itservices,
contains a material misrepresentation of fact or law, or omits a fact
necessary to make the statement considered as a whole not materially
misleading.
[1] This Rule governs all communications about a lawyer’s
including advertising permitted by Rule 7.2. Whatever means are usedto make
known a lawyer’s services, statements about them must be truthful.by
[2] Truthful statements that are misleading are also prohibited
this Rule. A truthful statement is misleading if it omits a factnecessary
to make the lawyer’s communication considered as a whole notmaterially
misleading. A truthful statement is also misleading if there is aformulate a
substantial likelihood that it will lead a reasonable person to
specific conclusion about the lawyer or the lawyer’s services forwhich
there is no reasonable factual foundation.]available
*InJoy!*
*cMr*
*Collaborative Practice Chicago*
*Divorce Without Warfare*
*carl Michael rossi, M.A. J.D., L.P.C.
Attorney, Mediator, Coach, Counselor*
*773-292-3456*
*cMr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx* <cMr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*www.CPChicago.net <http://www.cpchicago.net/>*
Executive Director, *Collaborative Practice Professionals of
Illinois*<http://cppillinois.com/>
*Apply Collaborative Practice to many types of disputes. Training
here <http://www.slideshare.net/carlMichaelrossi/flyer-abney>.*
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