Hey Bill, Ideas have lives of their own. There is a set of unexamined cultural beliefs and assumptions that keep certain attitudes current. Some of the nicest people I have ever met would not hesitate to at least consider killing anything that causes them to lose money or property (like a woodpecker damaging their house, for instance), or that is perceived to be a threat whether true or imagined. Any other way of looking at the situation is often derided as "impractical". I think all of us were raised with some element of that outlook, perhaps expressed in a different situation. How many of us tolerate all insects? Or for that matter, Starlings and Brown-headed Cowbirds. Same thing. Just more examples of the "them versus us" mindset to which we are all susceptible. That mindset allows all of us to justify doing unsavory things in our effort to do good for us and ours. How do we deal with this? I wish I knew. I know trying to tell others what to do will not help, but set ting an example might. Seeing the best in others, like tolerance, generosity, and compassion, might encourage them in that direction. I guess for now the best I know to do is to be aware of the "me versus them" tendency in myself, and try to avoid its worst expressions. Do no harm, judge not, do unto others as you would have done to you, turn the other cheek,...These and other wisdom teachings are all firewalls against the potential horrors of unenlightened self-interest. I can at least imagine the day when our wisdom becomes second nature. But personally, I still can't tolerate centipedes. :-) Don Holt Johnson City, TN -----Original Message----- From: Bill Cawood <b_cawood@xxxxxxxxx> To: Bristol Birds <bristol-birds@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:54:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Bristol-Birds] Disturbing information To all. Today while conversing with an acqauintance the topic turned to birds. Not the normal way however. The conversation took place in a sports and gun shop. One fella said he had seen an American Woodcock on his farm. We talked about the differences btw woodcock and snipe a little and then the conversation turned for the worse. I was asked what I thought about the following scenario; A hunter last year reported that his turkey decoy had been hit, picked up and carried 15 feet or so by a red tailed hawk. The man was not keen on red-tails to say the least,,, Any thoughts? I was asked about Hawks in general and their relationship with game animals such as quail, turkeys, rabbits and squirrels. I tried to relate that any animals taken by the hawks were small in number compared to those lost due to habitat destruction, pollution after effects and feral pets.. The group (3-4 men by now) agreed that ferals were taking many many animals. Stories ranged from kestrels taking dov es and squirrels to red tails taking "all" the quail and rabbits.... I was bothered by this, anyone have any thoughts? Then the conversation turned to great blue herons. The concensus was that herons were killing all the game fish, especially those in fish ponds. After explaining that the herons were not cranes or storks, we agreed that other than the occasional fish pond raid, herons were "ok" birds... I hadn't heard these ideas in years and had thought that they had become a thing of the past. Bill Cawood, BSG VA ************************************************* BRISTOL BIRDS NET LIST Bristol Birds Net Photo Gallery located at: http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jwcoffeyy/album?.dir=/efd5 This is a regional birding list sponsored by the Bristol Bird Club to facilitate communications between birders and bird clubs of Southwest Virginia and Northeast Tennessee. -------------------------------------------------- You are subscribed to Bristol-Birds. To post to this mailing list, simply send an email to: bristol-birds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe, send an email to bristol-birds-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the one word 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field. -------------------------------------------------- Wallace Coffey, Moderator wallace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (423)764-**** ************************************************* BRISTOL BIRDS NET LIST Bristol Birds Net Photo Gallery located at: http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jwcoffeyy/album?.dir=/efd5 This is a regional birding list sponsored by the Bristol Bird Club to facilitate communications between birders and bird clubs of Southwest Virginia and Northeast Tennessee. -------------------------------------------------- You are subscribed to Bristol-Birds. To post to this mailing list, simply send an email to: bristol-birds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe, send an email to bristol-birds-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the one word 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field. -------------------------------------------------- Wallace Coffey, Moderator wallace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (423)764-****