Jake,
I know that is what the unpack utility does, the question is why, if it
offers HTML as a cop option for the many people who may or may not have or
want to use daisy to read, it does not allow for the ability to make a
text copy too?
obviously it is not holding the HTML copy in its file, but as you have
said is creating a copy with a changed extension, so why not do the same
for text? I do not think file size would matter given the size of what
one has to download for other uses, if that was an issue since as you
explain it, the HTML file is being created.
Again you are making many assumptions as to usability here, why should i
use an online source to read this document, when to use the by your shared
agreement the most flexible for everyone no matter their platform
structure and most commonly understood as accessible for the blind format
it would be text. if the unpack utility can create one, why not create the
other?
I neither have, desire, or need a daisy reader, many with other print
disabilities might welcome a file in the least common format dominator for
use, and of course cost and technology might be an issue.
If you choose not to use the Daisy reader preferring the HTML copy why can
I not have the same choice, in the most understood and accessible and
transferable format, text? There is no legal factor here, especially if
the unpack utility allows for saving in a common format.
Your suggestions as to alternatives do not apply to me, nor to a fair
amount of others, nor to a fair amount of agencies who might need these
books for their students etc.
So again if the unpack utility offers the option to save in HTML and as
you have said such is not in conflict with the specialized restriction,
why not allow for a text file to be saved too?
On Sat, 21 Jan 2006, Jake Brownell wrote:
> Hi Karen,
> I never intentionally claimed that HTML was a specialized format.
> Actually what happens with the unpack utility...
>
> If you download the DAISY edition of the book, after supplying
> information like password and where to put the files, the utility will
> extract the DAISY content. This contains the main XML file and several
> little files. The utility will then prompt if you would like to create
> an HTML copy. This is done to allow people without access to a DAISY
> enabled software program to access the material. The unpack utility
> simply generates a new copy of the XML document and changes the
> extension to HTML.
>
> Internet Explorer 6 can actually open either the HTML or XML files.
>
> Most likely the reason the text document isn't included is because it
> would increase the size of the downloaded material and if it was
> generated it would lose all attempt at formatting. There might also be
> an issue with the fingerprinting software.
>
> Yes, ASCII text is generally accepted to be a great way of conveying
> information. However, DAISY and BRF are specialized formats designed
> specifically for the blind and physically handicapped. DAISY is
> especially designed in mind with providing more than just text.
>
> What barrier exists about not being able to read a web browser document?
> After all you have to be able to use them in order to access the website
> to get the content initially. True, you could use either OpenBook's or
> Kurzweil's facility for searching and downloading BookShare content, but
> those programs also have built-in mechanisms for reading it as well.
>
> I guess now I'm wondering why you couldn't just transform the HTML
> document into a TXT file like I suggested a few messages back. Again, if
> its for your sole use, it is allowed under the member agreement.
>
> Jake
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Lewellen"
> <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 11:35 AM
> Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Html filtering programs?
>
>
> > Jake,
> > HTML is not a specialized format either, and I believe that since
> > most
> > law on the subject of accessibility consider text to be the most
> > legally
> > acceptable structure, as in as little graphics as possible, one would
> > argue that if you can include a standard Internet format as HTML,
> > hardly
> > specialized, then you could allow for text when the part of the
> > population you are targeting might have barriers to the other
> > formats.
> > I would welcome seeing any jurisprudence you have that states that
> > HTML, a
> > common code on the Internet is specialized, while txt, a format
> > frequented by those who seek a low graphic experience is an off
> > limits
> > format? You have case history to support your suggestion that a code
> > that
> > makes up more pages on the net then text is specialized while the
> > less
> > frequently used one is not? remember you first suggested that I open
> > this
> > file in a commonly used browser to read it, suggesting that there is
> > nothing overly special about HTML.
> > we are not discussing how bookshare distributes its files, but what
> > its
> > tool allows one to do with that file. How can one export to a
> > common
> > file type like HTML, and not to another common file type like txt
> > when
> > neither impacts how you distribute the files in the first place?
> >
> > Karen
> >
> > On Sat, 21 Jan 2006, Jake Brownell wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Karen,
> > > BookShare's legal obligations do not allow it to distribute
> > > copyrighted books in forms other than DAISY or BRF. Here's a
> > > snippet.
> > > "... it is not an infringement of copyright for an authorized entity
> > > to reproduce or to distribute copies ... of a previously published,
> > > nondramatic literary work if such copies ... are reproduced or
> > > distributed in specialized formats exclusively for use by blind or
> > > other persons with disabilities."
> > >
> > > The keywords here are specialized format. A txt document is not
> > > considered a specialized format and so it would be illegal to
> > > provide copyrighted books in that form.
> > >
> > > However, the unpack tool from BookShare will give you the option of
> > > saving an HTML copy of the DAISY content. Then you may transform
> > > that HTML copy into TXT, as I already suggested, or a similar form,
> > > provided it is for your sole use.
> > >
> > > No one at BookShare is trying to slight anyone by their formats of
> > > choice, this is what they have to do to stay in business.
> > >
> > > If you're using Windows BookShare does offer a free DAISY player
> > > with membership. I've personally never used it, prefering instead to
> > > use the HTML document or the DAISY one inside Kurzweil or OpenBook.
> > >
> > > The selection of the DAISY format will also enable BookShare to
> > > begin offering textbooks with high levels of data markup. Things
> > > like pages, chapters, etc. will be marked in the DAISY document in
> > > such a way that DAISY reading software will interpret it and display
> > > options to the user, very similar to using a print book.
> > >
> > > You can read more about the BookShare formats and legalities on the
> > > website. The Frequently Asked Questions page will probably have
> > > something pertinent or will provide links to other areas of the site
> > > for more information.
> > >
> > > HTH,
> > > Jake
> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Lewellen"
> > > <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 10:38 AM
> > > Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Html filtering programs?
> > >
> > >
> > > > Jake,
> > > > Why not instead allow for copy-written books to be saved into
> > > > text
> > > > in the
> > > > first place as they can be obtained for the public domain
> > > > books?
> > > > Then it would not matter what I was using.
> > > > Sorry you do not have word perfect, but as I said this was not
> > > > list
> > > > chatter in any case. The program is a word processor, this is a
> > > > file made
> > > > up mainly of text material, in what way is it unreasonable to
> > > > use a
> > > > program designed for reading written material an odd choice?
> > > > Such seems
> > > > far more logical than using a program designed mainly for
> > > > obtaining
> > > > Internet information. I do not wish to read my books on line,
> > > > but off.
> > > > I have no trouble using Linux tools to unzip the compressed
> > > > files into the
> > > > html form, and again as I said I was only testing this since I am
> > > > told by
> > > > others here that the bookshare tool does not allow those books
> > > > that can be
> > > > read only by members to be opened into text, which frankly makes
> > > > no sense
> > > > to me as it is the least common file dominator allowing the
> > > > greatest
> > > > flexibility across platforms.
> > > > Is bookshare an organization for the elite? Should not a member
> > > > be able
> > > > to just as I can with say a book I buy from a bookstore, read with
> > > > what i
> > > > desire in the fashion I desire? Everyone brings their own
> > > > "personal
> > > > computing," to this table of learning, and if they are willing
> > > > to pay for
> > > > the service, they should not have less flexibility than those who
> > > > are just
> > > > reading the public domain items.
> > > >
> > > > Unless you are going to provide complete systems to those seeking
> > > > material
> > > > here would not it be best to make things as even as possible?
> > > > for example a school may be working with very dated equipment
> > > > yet
> > > > still
> > > > need to get textbooks for their students.
> > > > As a result, the tool should allow the same flexibility with
> > > > copy
> > > > written
> > > > material as it does with public domain items otherwise why pay
> > > > for your
> > > > service when you can get the public domain items from other
> > > > places, and
> > > > though be it with some creativity, have the books recorded or
> > > > scanned?
> > > > Just my thoughts,
> > > > Karen
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, 21 Jan 2006, Jake Brownell wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Karen,
> > > > > I don't have a copy of WordPerfect or readit (never heard of
> > > > > this one). WordPerfect I don't think though would be the ideal
> > > > > program to open an HTML doc in. Why not open the HTML in a
> > > > > browser like Internet Explorer or Firefox and use the file/save
> > > > > as command or copy/paste the content into a text or WordPerfect
> > > > > document?
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have either Kurzweil or OpenBook these have builtin
> > > > > facilities to read DAISY content as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > HTH,
> > > > > Jake
> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Lewellen"
> > > > > <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 10:02 AM
> > > > > Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Html filtering programs?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I have tried displaying it in both wordperfect and readit.
> > > > > > since the material starts at the top, I am reading
> > > > > > Northanger
> > > > > > abbey <which
> > > > > > I may have just misspelled> you would find this at the top
> > > > > > if using
> > > > > > either program.
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Karen
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, 20 Jan 2006, Jake Brownell wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Karen,
> > > > > > > I've viewed several books from BookShare in HTML and
> > > > > > > never had tags pop up in them. Would it be possible for you
> > > > > > > to give me the title of the book and a problem area to look
> > > > > > > for? Perhaps I can reproduce it and see if something is
> > > > > > > unique to that book.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What software are you using to display the HTML?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > Jake
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Lewellen"
> > > > > > > <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 7:49 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Html filtering programs?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi Jake,
> > > > > > > > have you ever viewed one of the html editions of a
> > > > > > > > book?
> > > > > > > > In general, or at least so I understand, if the html
> > > > > > > > coding is closed, i.
> > > > > > > > e. there are parentheses on both sides of the coding at
> > > > > > > > the top of an html
> > > > > > > > item you do not get the html code information. However or
> > > > > > > > at least with
> > > > > > > > the Jane austen book i tried, there is html information
> > > > > > > > character size,
> > > > > > > > references to the body etc in the text itself. what I
> > > > > > > > want to remove are
> > > > > > > > characters normally associated with html coding, for
> > > > > > > > example filters for
> > > > > > > > html mail are quite common and can remove the
> > > > > > > > extraneous information
> > > > > > > > included with such mail if the html coding involved is
> > > > > > > > not clean.
> > > > > > > > If this does not make sense write me off list and I
> > > > > > > > will illustrate.
> > > > > > > > Karen
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Fri, 20 Jan 2006, Jake Brownell wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi Karen,
> > > > > > > > > What types of characters are you wanting to
> > > > > > > > > remove? This will hopefully give me a better idea of the
> > > > > > > > > kind of program you are looking for.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Jake
> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Lewellen"
> > > > > > > > > <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 7:06 PM
> > > > > > > > > Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Html filtering
> > > > > > > > > programs?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi list,
> > > > > > > > > > I am experimenting with the html editions of
> > > > > > > > > > public
> > > > > > > > > > domain items since I
> > > > > > > > > > understand that such is the closest level to text
> > > > > > > > > > I will be able to get
> > > > > > > > > > bookshare items that are copywriten.
> > > > > > > > > > can anyone suggest a good html filtering program
> > > > > > > > > > that runs in dos or
> > > > > > > > > > Linux?
> > > > > > > > > > There are not a lot of such characters, but
> > > > > > > > > > enough
> > > > > > > > > > to be a bother.
> > > > > > > > > > thanks,
> > > > > > > > > > Karen
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank Email
> > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > bookshare-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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> > > > > > > > > > of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself
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> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/235
> > > > > > > > > > -
> > > > > > > > > > Release Date: 1/19/2006
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/235 -
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> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank Email to
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> > > > > > > Put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the Subject line.
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> > > > > > of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the
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> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > > > > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - Release
> > > > > > Date: 1/20/2006
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank Email to
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> > > > > Put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the Subject line. To
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> > > > a list
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - Release Date:
> > > > 1/20/2006
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank Email to
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> > > Put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the Subject line. To get a
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> > >
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> > list
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> > line.
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - Release Date:
> > 1/20/2006
> >
> >
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank Email to
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>
>
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