Neither witness could have been an eye witness since one was too far
away and the other was, by her own admission, on the floorboards.
Officer body cams will tell the story.
None of the authorities wanted violence, I'm sure, as that would just
drive more militants into action. They did everything they could to
protect the people of the area and arrest the suspects without the use
of force. Those militants who did as commanded are alive.
Shooting involving law enforcement are important, but these are special
circumstances indeed. When a criminal repeatedly tells the public,
police and those around him that he will NOT be taken alive it could
very well be argued that either of the witness scenarios will
corroborate a justified action by the officers here. Both stories
suggest that Finicum was approaching police, either with hands up and
walking or with hands in waistband and running. Either way, is he
trusted to approach law enforcement armed when he has repeatedly
suggested that only violence will come from his attempted arrest?
What is a scenario here where law enforcement were clearly out of
bounds in how they handled the situation?
On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 11:18 AM, John Smith <lesizmore86@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:lesizmore86@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Margaret Stephens writes: "To me this is not a major issue."
I find this, what, lack of curiosity? as to the circumstances of
this lethal event, um, remarkable.
I am not really too concerned about Finicum himself. I didn't know
him and from what I've read and heard of his life he doesn't come
off as someone I would in any way admire or respect. Some people in
social and broadcast media have talked about him having an affect of
soft-spoken cordiality. Good grief. Let's dispense with that right
off: recall for a moment the names of those ever so
soft-spoken,even genial, criminals Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle,
the sophistic ideological architects and chief apologists for the
Iraq war. Case closed. So, soft-spoken, kinda good guy in his own
way? please.
In the matter of this specific cause, his actions as a leading
member of a group of armed thugs were utterly and ongoingly despicable.
So is it clear, then, that I hold no brief for the guy?
Now, law enforcement//may have carried this out in a way that was
un-improvable, hopefully that will be borne out. But the actual
circumstances, these days, in the context of shootings involving
law enforcement are somehow unimportant? Hmmmm.
Tom
On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 10:10 AM, Margaret Stephens <mlstep@xxxxxxx
<mailto:mlstep@xxxxxxx>> wrote:
To me this is not a major issue. Except that the militias will
use this as an organizing tool.
I am really very saddened that a life was lost (even though I
oppose everything he stood for) but the man put himself in the
position of harm.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 10:00:10 -0800
Subject: [boo] The Matter of How LaVoy Finicum Met his
End...much more evidence needed......
From: lesizmore86@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:lesizmore86@xxxxxxxxx>
To: boo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:boo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Don't know about others but what I'm hearing/reading about the
circumstances seems to be split into two mutually exclusive and
somewhat self-serving narratives.
One version, propounded by some people who were/are passionately
pissed (and I number myself among them, but am not among the
antecedent "some" on this one aspect of Finicum's demise) at the
armed takeover of a beloved or, at the least, highly-valued
refuge, a symbol of what Government does well, is asserting that
Finicum,who was habitually armed (with a sidearm), deliberately
charged Law Enforcment and was killed by gunfire for this
putative overt aggression. It's entirely reasonable to assume
that LE was not going to be taking Any chances with a person
with an avowed intent to die before losing his "freedom". To
bolster this narrative, people CITE ONE SUPPOSED EYE
WITNESS.--Mark McConnell, the driver of one of the two vehicles
involved in the who posted two videos yesterday, Wed. 1/27/16.
NB, he, in his own words, is NOT an eye witness: " I didn't see
it. I'm not going to speculate on it". He recounts talking to
Shawna Cox and Ryan Payne for his version and talks about how
their narrative, to him, changes. So in the video, McConnell
gives a plausible and perhaps persuasive account of how the
arrests of people in HIS vehicle took place.
And so this is the crux of the biscuit (tip o' the pin to F.
Zappa) and this is where the two narratives become self serving. ...
because McConnell describes how Finicum jumped back into his
truck, which was ahead of him on the road, and drives a further
+/- mile on and meets another roadblock. ...So can people agree
that McConnell is telling the truth about this and really can't
see a mile up a winding road through a forest? I would hope.
Enter the other narrative: That Finicum was gunned down with
hands up, basically murdered by LE.
In support of this, people are citing the audio Youtube account,
approximately 8 minutes in length, where some unknown (to me) is
purportedly interviewing Victoria Sharp who, supposedly, was in
the very vehicle that L. Finicum was driving to that second
roadblock. I've listened to that interview -by-phone and, for
me, am in No Way blithely accepting her account on how it went
down.
BUT, I am not out of hand dismissing it either.
It comes down to the tonal and circumstantial quality of the
audio. Sharp is either an Extremely glib and gifted
extemporaneous liar, complete with admirably faked asides,
interruptions, all polished and posted inside of 15 hours of the
events, or maybe, perhaps....there is some there there?
Me, I want to know a lot more before I get on any bandwagon.
Would love , for instance, to see the "after" picture of that
truck---is it indeed riddled with bullet holes. Would like to
know the results of a coroner's/ forensic report. Hell, would
love to see a video of this last act if it exists.
Non-conspiracy theorists, I would hope by now, should know that
"the facts" and accounts from any source, this early on in the
game, have a way of changing or transmogrifying, examples abound.
My stance right now: dispassionate skepticism.
