(To clarify for those who are not aware, Angela is a member of the OBA
Board.)
On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 12:11 PM Angela Calabrese <cbreseangela@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hello all,
I personally did not take Brodie's emails to be public humiliation of
Treesa. I think he was disagreeing with decisions made and wondering why
someone who repeated went off topic and out of his way to display
inappropriate behavior was allowed to do with repeatedly.
For myself, I think Treesa has done a wonderful job within the current
confines of OBOL rules. I think what we most disagree on is what falls
within the broad topic of "birds" and "political."
I don't think sharing one's experience while birding, positive or
negative, is political. It is quite literally what happened to someone. I
sent an email a couple years ago about my first trip to Malheur. I included
my wonderful experiences meeting other birders there. The email was well
recieved. If I had sent an email and included details about other birders
mistreating me, I suspect the topic would have been shut down.
I was hoping that the OBA would be able to solidly define (or perhaps,
redefine) what is considered a bird relates topic.
OBOL is a birding community. Much of the Oregon birding community is found
on OBOL. I think sending statements like the one about violence against
women is appropriate and also a great way for people to learn about the
OBA. Perhaps sending the statement can encourage new members to our
wonderful organization and increase its diversity.
Unrelated to the topics above, I do wonder how many people have felt
uncomfortable speak up after Jeff sent his initial email? While I commend
Treesa for believing in Jeff's ability to add useful ideas to the current
dialog, it seems that there has been a shift in who is sharing opinions.
Angela
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S8 Active, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable
smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Teresa Hertzel <teresa.hertzel@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: 2/26/21 2:04 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: Brodie Cass Talbott <brodietlewis@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: BOO List <boo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [boo] Re: Fwd: Re: Wow!!
You are saying clearly that you feel I have not done a good job of
moderating OBOL. You give examples and bring up history. How can you do
that on the spur of the moment? Have you been saving this up? This is the
first time you have indicated this to me, and you are choosing to do it
publicly. As you are a member of the OBA Board, I would say you are
deliberately humiliating me. Why? Would you like me to resign as OBOL
moderator?
On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 3:50 PM Brodie Cass Talbott <
brodietlewis@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
All the more reason I would not be interested in promoting BOO. This
clearly shows the value of a moderated forum, and I hope we can work to
make OBOL a welcoming space for all kinds of birders.
I also want to point out that I was among many that thought Jeff should
be banned, but none of us thought that it was "immediate." He already had a
long series of problematic posts, including calling people "psychos," the
obviously racially charged mention of "moorish sovereigns," and multiple
descriptions of graphic violence in defense of his use of the term
"psycho," none of which had anything to do with birds or birding.
This was all BEFORE he started attacking women on the forum, emailing
people off list, and then threatening to call the police on anyone who
wrote him off-list, as well as telling others that he was interested in
suing me because of my response in support of women.
Any one of these posts should have put him on moderated posts, with the
subsequent post resulting in banning. There was nothing "immediate" about
it.
And if he's allowed to bully people here, I'm out, and would encourage
others to do the same, as a message that the birding community does not
support bullying or sexism.
Brodie
Portland
On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 1:38 PM Teresa Hertzel <teresa.hertzel@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Brodie, that was not a fair statement. BOO is not moderated.
On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 3:37 PM Brodie Cass Talbott <
brodietlewis@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I found Jeff's email to Linda to be the textbook case of bullying, and
am shocked that it wasn't met with swift condemnation from the moderator.
It encourages him to post more like this, and the women on this list to yet
again have to choose to stay and be the target of bullying, or leave yet
another forum, for self defense.
There was mention of perhaps having the OBA board consider adding this
list to our website. I won't speak for anyone else on the board but I would
have no interest in promoting a list that tolerates this sort of behavior.
Brodie
Portland
On Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 13:03 Mary Garrard <springazure1@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Whether or not we would like someone in person is irrelevant. What’s
relevant is how we treat each other online since that is how we know each
other. I consider Jeff’s email to be a perfect example of what is not
acceptable. First, because the email specifically targeted someone. I
reread her email and she didn’t mention Jeff, but maybe I missed
something.
Second, because one feels attacked doesn’t give one permission to
retaliate. That’s how wars get started. Third, if a response is necessary,
it can be stated in such a way that promotes communication instead of
shutting it down.
I leave it to Treesa to decide how to handle it, since she’s the
moderator, and even though BOO doesn’t have the same guidelines as OBOL,
civility is still necessary.
Mary
___________
*My religion is very simple. My religion is kindness. The Dalai Lama*
On Feb 26, 2021, at 12:45 PM, Jeff Gilligan <jeffgilligan10@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Women - You would probably like me. Most do who know me. Most means
over 50%. I take a widow in the neighborhood to Nogales, Mexico to see
her dentist. She is concerned about going on her own (wise). I spent
uncounted hours on a team looking for the Golden State Killer (aka - East
Area Rapist). Our POI (who had ties to Post and Prineville, Oregon) was
taken very seriously by the cold case detectives, but his sister’s DNA
ruled him out. The case looked incredibly good, so much so that the
detectives were surprised and disappointed. BTW: Dozens of ex-wives and
ex-girl friends turned in their EXs as being the killer. Some reports
were
in great detail, that included supposed admissions. They were all
debunked, and some were so convincing that barring DNA analysis, the EX
would have possibly been charged with murders. That is why evidence
matters. Recently I got a very solid lead on the murder of Eliane Fay
Lehtinen. The cold case unit in the Bay Area took (or is taking) it
seriously. I am not optimistic though unless there is DNA evidence:
https://murdermurder.news/2020/07/10/your-next-favorite-podcast-naptime-nancy/
.
It is just not right to accuse some one publicly and make claims,
without first hand knowledge, where there has not been a trial and
conviction. Calling a person who is not a public figure a perpetrator of
a
crime of moral turpitude is just wrong, unless there is a conviction.
Even
if an innocent man is not charged, or not found guilty, his reputation
will
always be damaged.
Women birders should be more concerned about guys like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Jack_Fowler or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Keyes. Bobby Fowler worked
about 200 yards from the Boiler Bay wayside. Keyes raped a woman on the
Deschutes River. Both of these guys stalked Oregon birding locations for
a
time. Even in the Georgia situation, the purported victim acknowledges
that they were dating. Not even her allegation would indicate that he is
a
troll hiding in the woods waiting to waylay women birders. Indicating his
name to protect Oregon women who he is not dating 3,000 miles away is
unnecessary. The first comment on OBOL, about the board o OBA condemning
assaults on women seemed strange to me, but uncontroversial. I very much
doubt that anyone on OBOL favors violence against women.
If he did what is claimed, he deserves punishment.
Even on this site, I would hope we revert to birding talk.
Jeff Gilligan
On Feb 26, 2021, at 1:09 PM, Teresa Hertzel <teresa.hertzel@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Linda and Jeff, please both stay on this listserv. Our biggest
"problem" is our diversity, and BOO is our last hope to figure out how to
get along.
On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 1:22 PM Jeff Gilligan <
jeffgilligan10@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Right. It is nice to have a site where birds can be discussed, and
that is not subject to the thought control bureau, that encourages false
accusations about posters, and has no trouble accusing a not arrested or
charged person (in Georgia) with crimes of moral turpitude. I will post
bird sightings here in the future.
Linda Fink - go take a dump. I can see you are full of it.
( I don’t react rudely, except to the rude and crude.)
Jeff Gilligan
On Feb 26, 2021, at 12:13 PM, canyoneagle (Redacted sender"canyoneagle" for DMARC) <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
you!
Absolutely agree with everything Linda said, great note, thank
people I know gave up much sooner, and were quite bitter about the
I hung on for six years before giving up on OBOL. A number of
treatment that they received from what Linda called the "old guard". My
name for them was the "Inner Circle". I always thought that they used
OBOL
as if it was their own private list, rather than a list that is open to
all
bird folks. Perhaps the Inner Circle should think about starting their
own
list?
Treesa!
I live in California now, but still enjoy reading Boo, so thank you
be up that way again.
I might run into some of you in the field in the future, as I will
Behalf Of Linda Fink
Best wishes all,
Lori Markoff
canyoneagle@xxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: boo-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <boo-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 6:51 PMwhole slew of Boo messages in my daily digest. I have not bothered to
To: boo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [boo] Wow!!
I checked my email this evening, as usual, and was shocked to see a
check
OBOL for several days as I'm busy living life here on the farm in the
post-ice age times. So I had not read any of the stuff y'all are talking
about. How wonderful to hear such a reasonable discussion here on Boo!
I've been on OBOL since the early days when it really was just for rare
I'll come down on the side of Caleb. Bullies should be removed.
bird sightings. That is no longer necessary thanks to e-bird. And, folks,
those knowledgeable old guys are not the only ones on OBOL who are
knowledgeable. Others would speak up if the old guard took their toys and
left.
need to be on BOO. I love having that venue where I know people are
As for what topics should be on OBOL, political discussions still
interested in hearing about the conservation issues I post there (here).
And where I can read about ones I may not have known about yet.(Thanks, the other Linda!)
and fair job you have always done. I still hate the e-bird reports that
And, finally, a million thanks to moderator Theresa. What a fine
fill up my OBOL digest but I respect that I can scroll (and scroll and
scroll) past them eventually to get to what I'm interested in,which is not rare bird sightings but just interesting bird sightings,
like
Judy's field trip reports... I always envied having a group like that
birding together.
very little interest to me anymore. And I hate hearing people disparage
What OBOL has become by letting the old guard have their way is of
each other. Joel is always getting into trouble with some of the old
regulars yet Joel is out there doing more for birds and conservation on a
daily basis than most anyone else on OBOL. His personality, like mine,
just
ticks some people off. Theresa has a job keeping us both in line but she
is
very fair.
last several days and learn who the bad guys are this time around,
When I get time, I'll go back and read the OBOL digests from the
although
I think I know. OBOL has never been welcoming to new birders and so when
a
new birder comes on and gets shot down, I try to send them a private
telling them not to let the old guard get them down. I'm sorry I was not
paying attention this time.
especially to Theresa for bringing it up. We are so fortunate to have her
Thanks to all of you who have contributed to this discussion and
as moderator on OBOL!
matter how knowledgeable the crapper is.
And, again, please listen to Caleb. Do not put up with crap no
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