Hello all,I personally did not take Brodie's emails to be public humiliation of
Treesa. I think he was disagreeing with decisions made and wondering why
someone who repeated went off topic and out of his way to display inappropriate
behavior was allowed to do with repeatedly. For myself, I think Treesa has done
a wonderful job within the current confines of OBOL rules. I think what we most
disagree on is what falls within the broad topic of "birds" and "political." I
don't think sharing one's experience while birding, positive or negative, is
political. It is quite literally what happened to someone. I sent an email a
couple years ago about my first trip to Malheur. I included my wonderful
experiences meeting other birders there. The email was well recieved. If I had
sent an email and included details about other birders mistreating me, I
suspect the topic would have been shut down. I was hoping that the OBA would be
able to solidly define (or perhaps, redefine) what is considered a bird relates
topic.OBOL is a birding community. Much of the Oregon birding community is
found on OBOL. I think sending statements like the one about violence against
women is appropriate and also a great way for people to learn about the OBA.
Perhaps sending the statement can encourage new members to our wonderful
organization and increase its diversity. Unrelated to the topics above, I do
wonder how many people have felt uncomfortable speak up after Jeff sent his
initial email? While I commend Treesa for believing in Jeff's ability to add
useful ideas to the current dialog, it seems that there has been a shift in who
is sharing opinions. AngelaSent via the Samsung Galaxy S8 Active, an AT&T 5G
Evolution capable smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Teresa Hertzel
<teresa.hertzel@xxxxxxxxx> Date: 2/26/21 2:04 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Brodie Cass
Talbott <brodietlewis@xxxxxxxxx> Cc: BOO List <boo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject:
[boo] Re: Fwd: Re: Wow!! You are saying clearly that you feel I have not done a
good job of moderating OBOL. You give examples and bring up history. How can
you do that on the spur of the moment? Have you been saving this up? This is
the first time you have indicated this to me, and you are choosing to do it
publicly. As you are a member of the OBA Board, I would say you are
deliberately humiliating me. Why? Would you like me to resign as OBOL
moderator?On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 3:50 PM Brodie Cass Talbott
<brodietlewis@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:All the more reason I would not be interested in
promoting BOO. This clearly shows the value of a moderated forum, and I hope we
can work to make OBOL a welcoming space for all kinds of birders. I also want
to point out that I was among many that thought Jeff should be banned, but none
of us thought that it was "immediate." He already had a long series of
problematic posts, including calling people "psychos," the obviously racially
charged mention of "moorish sovereigns," and multiple descriptions of graphic
violence in defense of his use of the term "psycho," none of which had anything
to do with birds or birding. This was all BEFORE he started attacking women on
the forum, emailing people off list, and then threatening to call the police on
anyone who wrote him off-list, as well as telling others that he was interested
in suing me because of my response in support of women. Any one of these posts
should have put him on moderated posts, with the subsequent post resulting in
banning. There was nothing "immediate" about it. And if he's allowed to bully
people here, I'm out, and would encourage others to do the same, as a message
that the birding community does not support bullying or sexism.
BrodiePortlandOn Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 1:38 PM Teresa Hertzel
<teresa.hertzel@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:Brodie, that was not a fair statement. BOO is
not moderated. On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 3:37 PM Brodie Cass Talbott
<brodietlewis@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:I found Jeff's email to Linda to be the textbook
case of bullying, and am shocked that it wasn't met with swift condemnation
from the moderator. It encourages him to post more like this, and the women on
this list to yet again have to choose to stay and be the target of bullying, or
leave yet another forum, for self defense. There was mention of perhaps having
the OBA board consider adding this list to our website. I won't speak for
anyone else on the board but I would have no interest in promoting a list that
tolerates this sort of behavior.BrodiePortlandOn Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 13:03 Mary
Garrard <springazure1@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:Whether or not we would like someone in
person is irrelevant. What’s relevant is how we treat each other online since
that is how we know each other. I consider Jeff’s email to be a perfect example
of what is not acceptable. First, because the email specifically targeted
someone. I reread her email and she didn’t mention Jeff, but maybe I missed
something. Second, because one feels attacked doesn’t give one permission to
retaliate. That’s how wars get started. Third, if a response is necessary, it
can be stated in such a way that promotes communication instead of shutting it
down.I leave it to Treesa to decide how to handle it, since she’s the
moderator, and even though BOO doesn’t have the same guidelines as OBOL,
civility is still necessary.Mary___________My religion is very simple. My
religion is kindness. The Dalai Lama
On Feb 26, 2021, at 12:45 PM, Jeff Gilligan <jeffgilligan10@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:Women - You would probably like me. Most do who know me. Most means over
50%. I take a widow in the neighborhood to Nogales, Mexico to see her
dentist. She is concerned about going on her own (wise). I spent uncounted
hours on a team looking for the Golden State Killer (aka - East Area Rapist).
Our POI (who had ties to Post and Prineville, Oregon) was taken very seriously
by the cold case detectives, but his sister’s DNA ruled him out. The case
looked incredibly good, so much so that the detectives were surprised and
disappointed. BTW: Dozens of ex-wives and ex-girl friends turned in their EXs
as being the killer. Some reports were in great detail, that included supposed
admissions. They were all debunked, and some were so convincing that barring
DNA analysis, the EX would have possibly been charged with murders. That is
why evidence matters. Recently I got a very solid lead on the murder of Eliane
Fay Lehtinen. The cold case unit in the Bay Area took (or is taking) it
seriously. I am not optimistic though unless there is DNA evidence:
https://murdermurder.news/2020/07/10/your-next-favorite-podcast-naptime-nancy/.
It is just not right to accuse some one publicly and make claims, without first
hand knowledge, where there has not been a trial and conviction. Calling a
person who is not a public figure a perpetrator of a crime of moral turpitude
is just wrong, unless there is a conviction. Even if an innocent man is not
charged, or not found guilty, his reputation will always be damaged.Women
birders should be more concerned about guys like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Jack_Fowler or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Keyes. Bobby Fowler worked about 200 ;
yards from the Boiler Bay wayside. Keyes raped a woman on the Deschutes River.
Both of these guys stalked Oregon birding locations for a time. Even in the
Georgia situation, the purported victim acknowledges that they were dating.
Not even her allegation would indicate that he is a troll hiding in the woods
waiting to waylay women birders. Indicating his name to protect Oregon women
who he is not dating 3,000 miles away is unnecessary. The first comment on
OBOL, about the board o OBA condemning assaults on women seemed strange to me,
but uncontroversial. I very much doubt that anyone on OBOL favors violence
against women. If he did what is claimed, he deserves punishment. Even on
this site, I would hope we revert to birding talk.Jeff GilliganOn Feb 26, 2021,
at 1:09 PM, Teresa Hertzel <teresa.hertzel@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:Linda and Jeff,
please both stay on this listserv. Our biggest "problem" is our diversity, and
BOO is our last hope to figure out how to get along.On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at
1:22 PM Jeff Gilligan <jeffgilligan10@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:Right. It is nice to
have a site where birds can be discussed, and that is not subject to the
thought control bureau, that encourages false accusations about posters, and
has no trouble accusing a not arrested or charged person (in Georgia) with
crimes of moral turpitude. I will post bird sightings here in the future.
Linda Fink - go take a dump. I can see you are full of it.
( I don’t react rudely, except to the rude and crude.)
Jeff Gilligan
On Feb 26, 2021, at 12:13 PM, canyoneagle (Redacted sender "canyoneagle" for
DMARC) <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Absolutely agree with everything Linda said, great note, thank you!
I hung on for six years before giving up on OBOL. A number of people I know
gave up much sooner, and were quite bitter about the treatment that they
received from what Linda called the "old guard". My name for them was the
"Inner Circle". I always thought that they used OBOL as if it was their own
private list, rather than a list that is open to all bird folks. Perhaps the
Inner Circle should think about starting their own list?
I live in California now, but still enjoy reading Boo, so thank you Treesa!
I might run into some of you in the field in the future, as I will be up that
way again.
Best wishes all,
Lori Markoff
canyoneagle@xxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: boo-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <boo-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Linda
Fink
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 6:51 PM
To: boo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [boo] Wow!!
I checked my email this evening, as usual, and was shocked to see a whole
slew of Boo messages in my daily digest. I have not bothered to check OBOL
for several days as I'm busy living life here on the farm in the post-ice age
times. So I had not read any of the stuff y'all are talking about. How
wonderful to hear such a reasonable discussion here on Boo!
I'll come down on the side of Caleb. Bullies should be removed. I've been on
OBOL since the early days when it really was just for rare bird sightings.
That is no longer necessary thanks to e-bird. And, folks, those knowledgeable
old guys are not the only ones on OBOL who are knowledgeable. Others would
speak up if the old guard took their toys and left.
As for what topics should be on OBOL, political discussions still need to be
on BOO. I love having that venue where I know people are interested in
hearing about the conservation issues I post there (here).
And where I can read about ones I may not have known about yet. (Thanks, the
other Linda!)
And, finally, a million thanks to moderator Theresa. What a fine and fair job
you have always done. I still hate the e-bird reports that fill up my OBOL
digest but I respect that I can scroll (and scroll and
scroll) past them eventually to get to what I'm interested in, which is not
rare bird sightings but just interesting bird sightings, like Judy's field
trip reports... I always envied having a group like that birding together.
What OBOL has become by letting the old guard have their way is of very
little interest to me anymore. And I hate hearing people disparage each
other. Joel is always getting into trouble with some of the old regulars yet
Joel is out there doing more for birds and conservation on a daily basis than
most anyone else on OBOL. His personality, like mine, just ticks some people
off. Theresa has a job keeping us both in line but she is very fair.
When I get time, I'll go back and read the OBOL digests from the last several
days and learn who the bad guys are this time around, although I think I
know. OBOL has never been welcoming to new birders and so when a new birder
comes on and gets shot down, I try to send them a private email telling them
not to let the old guard get them down. I'm sorry I was not paying attention
this time.
Thanks to all of you who have contributed to this discussion and especially
to Theresa for bringing it up. We are so fortunate to have her as moderator
on OBOL!
And, again, please listen to Caleb. Do not put up with crap no matter how
knowledgeable the crapper is.
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