. Election 2016
The Real Debate Last Night Was Between Democratic Socialism and Casino
Capitalism
The Real Debate Last Night Was Between Democratic Socialism and Casino
Capitalism
And if Bernie Sanders has his way, this discussion's not over.
By
John Nichols
Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton at the first Democratic debate in Las
Vegas, October 13, 2015. (AP Photo/John Locher)
In much of the world a nationally-televised political debate about the
relative merits of democratic socialism as opposed to casino capitalism
would not be news. Indeed, in the America of a century ago, when Socialist
Party Eugene Victor Debs and Socialist Party-backed independent progressive
Robert M. La Follette won millions of votes in races for the presidency, the
discussion could have been had without shocking the sensibilities of the
pundit class.
In the America of recent decades, however, the very thought of such a debate
has been dismissed by political and media elites who have policed the
national discourse into a narrow space that invariably reinforces a
predictable (and often failed) status quo.
ADVERTISING
That changed with Tuesday night's first Democratic presidential debate.
While the pivot came in the context of rather too-predictable horserace
punditry, the fact that more than fifteen million Americans heard a few
minutes of serious discussion about economic-and political-alternatives was
remarkable.
Turning to Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, who leads in polls from the first
primary state of New Hampshire and is a serious competitor in the first
caucus state of Iowa, moderator Anderson Cooper said: "A Gallup poll says
half the country would not put a socialist in the White House. You call
yourself a democratic socialist. How can any kind of socialist win a general
election in the United States?"
"Well," replied Sanders, "we're gonna win because first, we're gonna explain
what democratic socialism is."
"(What) democratic socialism is about is saying that it is immoral and wrong
that the top one-tenth of 1 percent in this country own almost 90
percent-almost-own almost as much wealth as the bottom 90 percent. That it
is wrong, today, in a rigged economy, that 57 percent of all new income is
going to the top 1 percent," continued the senator, who explained "that when
you look around the world, you see every other major country providing
health care to all people as a right, except the United States. You see
every other major country saying to moms that, when you have a baby, we're
not gonna separate you from your newborn baby, because we are going to
have-we are gonna have medical and family paid leave, like every other
country on Earth. Those are some of the principles that I believe in, and I
think we should look to countries like Denmark, like Sweden and Norway, and
learn from what they have accomplished for their working people."
That was not a radical statement. Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph
Stiglitz has argued that the United States should be considering economic
ideas and models from Scandinavia, explaining that, "There are policies that
can once again put the sought after, but increasingly unattainable
middle-class lifestyle within the grasp of most Americans."
Sanders was interrupted by loud applause from the raucous crowd that made up
the Las Vegas debate's "live" audience.
Cooper also interrupted, with a bit of perspective. "Denmark is a country
that has a population of 5.6 million people. The question is really about
electability here, and that's what I'm trying to get at," said the CNN host,
who suggested that "the Republican attack ad against you in a general
election-it writes itself. You supported the Sandinistas in Nicaragua. You
honeymooned in the Soviet Union. And just this weekend, you said you're not
a capitalist."
Putting on the pundit hat, Anderson asked, "Doesn't. that ad write itself?"
Unfazed, Sanders said, "Well, first of all, let's look at the facts-the
facts that are very simple. Republicans win when there is a low voter
turnout, and that is what happened last November. Sixty-three percent of the
American people didn't vote, Anderson. Eighty percent of young people didn't
vote. We are bringing out huge turnouts, and creating excitement all over
this country.
The senator argued that pushing the limits of the debate has the potential
to bring new voters into the process: "Democrats at the White House on down
will win, when there is excitement and a large voter turnout, and that is
what this campaign is doing."
Cooper asked Sanders: "You don't consider yourself a capitalist, though?"
"Do I consider myself part of the casino capitalist process by which so few
have so much and so many have so little by which Wall Street's greed and
recklessness wrecked this economy?" replied the senator. "No, I don't. I
believe in a society where all people do well. Not just a handful of
billionaires."
Then Cooper asked the appropriate next question: "Just let me just be clear.
Is there anybody else on the stage who is not a capitalist?"
This is where former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton came in.
"Well," said the front-runner for the Democratic nomination, "let me just
follow-up on that, Anderson, because when I think about capitalism, I think
about all the small businesses that were started because we have the
opportunity and the freedom in our country for people to do that and to make
a good living for themselves and their families."
Sounding themes rooted in President Franklin Delano Roosevelt's New Deal
era, Clinton said. "I don't think we should confuse what we have to do every
so often in America, which is save capitalism from itself. And I think what
Senator Sanders is saying certainly makes sense in the terms of the
inequality that we have."
Like Cooper, Clinton was dismissive of Denmark.
THE NATION IS READER FUNDED. YOUR SUPPORT IS VITAL TO OUR WORK.
DONATE NOW!
"[W]e are not Denmark," she announced. "I love Denmark. We are the United
States of America. And it's our job to rein in the excesses of capitalism so
that it doesn't run amok and doesn't cause the kind of inequities we're
seeing in our economic system. But we would be making a grave mistake to
turn our backs on what built the greatest middle class in the history of the
world."
Clinton got her round of applause from a crowd that generally cheered
progressive proclamations-presumably for the pledge to "rein in the excesses
of capitalism."
Sanders noted that common ground.
"I think everybody is in agreement that we are a great entrepreneurial
nation. We have got to encourage that. Of course, we have to support small
and medium-sized businesses," he said. "But you can have all of the growth
that you want and it doesn't mean anything if all of the new income and
wealth is going to the top 1 percent. So what we need to do is support small
and medium-sized businesses, the backbone of our economy, but we have to
make sure that every family in this country gets a fair shake not just for
billionaires."
Sanders and Clinton came at plenty of issues from different places, as did
the three other contenders who took the stage Tuesday night: former Maryland
Governor Martin O'Malley, former Rhode Island Senator Lincoln Chafee and
former Virginia Senator Jim Webb. (Harvard professor Lawrence Lessig should
have been included, as well.)
But on the issue of capitalism, while they differed, the two leading
contenders for the Democratic presidential nomination accepted that
something is not working-that there are, as Clinton said, "excesses of
capitalism" and "inequities we're seeing in our economic system."
That is not the end of the discussion.
This is merely a starting point. But the fact that a broader, deeper
discussion has started suggests, against all odds and expectations, that
2016 might be the year when presidential politics gets serious about
economic questions that have, for too many decades, been neglected.
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. Election 2016
. Democrats
. Economics
The Real Debate Last Night Was Between Democratic Socialism and Casino
Capitalism
And if Bernie Sanders has his way, this discussion's not over.
By
John NicholsTwitter
Today 12:57 pm
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http://www.thenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Sanders_Clinton_debate_1
0-13-15_ap_img.jpghttp://www.thenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Sander
s_Clinton_debate_10-13-15_ap_img.jpg
Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton at the first Democratic debate in Las
Vegas, October 13, 2015. (AP Photo/John Locher)
In much of the world a nationally-televised political debate about the
relative merits of democratic socialism as opposed to casino capitalism
would not be news. Indeed, in the America of a century ago, when Socialist
Party Eugene Victor Debs and Socialist Party-backed independent progressive
Robert M. La Follette won millions of votes in races for the presidency, the
discussion could have been had without shocking the sensibilities of the
pundit class.
In the America of recent decades, however, the very thought of such a debate
has been dismissed by political and media elites who have policed the
national discourse into a narrow space that invariably reinforces a
predictable (and often failed) status quo.
ADVERTISING
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.
That changed with Tuesday night's first Democratic presidential debate.
While the pivot came in the context of rather too-predictable horserace
punditry, the fact that more than fifteen million Americans heard a few
minutes of serious discussion about economic-and political-alternatives was
remarkable.
Turning to Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, who leads in polls from the first
primary state of New Hampshire and is a serious competitor in the first
caucus state of Iowa, moderator Anderson Cooper said: "A Gallup poll says
half the country would not put a socialist in the White House. You call
yourself a democratic socialist. How can any kind of socialist win a general
election in the United States?"
"Well," replied Sanders, "we're gonna win because first, we're gonna explain
what democratic socialism is."
"(What) democratic socialism is about is saying that it is immoral and wrong
that the top one-tenth of 1 percent in this country own almost 90
percent-almost-own almost as much wealth as the bottom 90 percent. That it
is wrong, today, in a rigged economy, that 57 percent of all new income is
going to the top 1 percent," continued the senator, who explained "that when
you look around the world, you see every other major country providing
health care to all people as a right, except the United States. You see
every other major country saying to moms that, when you have a baby, we're
not gonna separate you from your newborn baby, because we are going to
have-we are gonna have medical and family paid leave, like every other
country on Earth. Those are some of the principles that I believe in, and I
think we should look to countries like Denmark, like Sweden and Norway, and
learn from what they have accomplished for their working people."
That was not a radical statement. Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph
Stiglitz has argued that the United States should be considering economic
ideas and models from Scandinavia, explaining that, "There are policies that
can once again put the sought after, but increasingly unattainable
middle-class lifestyle within the grasp of most Americans."
Sanders was interrupted by loud applause from the raucous crowd that made up
the Las Vegas debate's "live" audience.
Cooper also interrupted, with a bit of perspective. "Denmark is a country
that has a population of 5.6 million people. The question is really about
electability here, and that's what I'm trying to get at," said the CNN host,
who suggested that "the Republican attack ad against you in a general
election-it writes itself. You supported the Sandinistas in Nicaragua. You
honeymooned in the Soviet Union. And just this weekend, you said you're not
a capitalist."
Putting on the pundit hat, Anderson asked, "Doesn't. that ad write itself?"
Unfazed, Sanders said, "Well, first of all, let's look at the facts-the
facts that are very simple. Republicans win when there is a low voter
turnout, and that is what happened last November. Sixty-three percent of the
American people didn't vote, Anderson. Eighty percent of young people didn't
vote. We are bringing out huge turnouts, and creating excitement all over
this country.
The senator argued that pushing the limits of the debate has the potential
to bring new voters into the process: "Democrats at the White House on down
will win, when there is excitement and a large voter turnout, and that is
what this campaign is doing."
Cooper asked Sanders: "You don't consider yourself a capitalist, though?"
"Do I consider myself part of the casino capitalist process by which so few
have so much and so many have so little by which Wall Street's greed and
recklessness wrecked this economy?" replied the senator. "No, I don't. I
believe in a society where all people do well. Not just a handful of
billionaires."
Then Cooper asked the appropriate next question: "Just let me just be clear.
Is there anybody else on the stage who is not a capitalist?"
This is where former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton came in.
"Well," said the front-runner for the Democratic nomination, "let me just
follow-up on that, Anderson, because when I think about capitalism, I think
about all the small businesses that were started because we have the
opportunity and the freedom in our country for people to do that and to make
a good living for themselves and their families."
Sounding themes rooted in President Franklin Delano Roosevelt's New Deal
era, Clinton said. "I don't think we should confuse what we have to do every
so often in America, which is save capitalism from itself. And I think what
Senator Sanders is saying certainly makes sense in the terms of the
inequality that we have."
Like Cooper, Clinton was dismissive of Denmark.
THE NATION IS READER FUNDED. YOUR SUPPORT IS VITAL TO OUR WORK.
DONATE NOW!
"[W]e are not Denmark," she announced. "I love Denmark. We are the United
States of America. And it's our job to rein in the excesses of capitalism so
that it doesn't run amok and doesn't cause the kind of inequities we're
seeing in our economic system. But we would be making a grave mistake to
turn our backs on what built the greatest middle class in the history of the
world."
Clinton got her round of applause from a crowd that generally cheered
progressive proclamations-presumably for the pledge to "rein in the excesses
of capitalism."
Sanders noted that common ground.
"I think everybody is in agreement that we are a great entrepreneurial
nation. We have got to encourage that. Of course, we have to support small
and medium-sized businesses," he said. "But you can have all of the growth
that you want and it doesn't mean anything if all of the new income and
wealth is going to the top 1 percent. So what we need to do is support small
and medium-sized businesses, the backbone of our economy, but we have to
make sure that every family in this country gets a fair shake not just for
billionaires."
Sanders and Clinton came at plenty of issues from different places, as did
the three other contenders who took the stage Tuesday night: former Maryland
Governor Martin O'Malley, former Rhode Island Senator Lincoln Chafee and
former Virginia Senator Jim Webb. (Harvard professor Lawrence Lessig should
have been included, as well.)
But on the issue of capitalism, while they differed, the two leading
contenders for the Democratic presidential nomination accepted that
something is not working-that there are, as Clinton said, "excesses of
capitalism" and "inequities we're seeing in our economic system."
That is not the end of the discussion.
This is merely a starting point. But the fact that a broader, deeper
discussion has started suggests, against all odds and expectations, that
2016 might be the year when presidential politics gets serious about
economic questions that have, for too many decades, been neglected.
