Hi Miriam,
I already downloaded the book. I expect it will be very difficult to read
given all the hel that Rachel has been put through.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Miriam Vieni
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 4:23 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Prostitution: Being Raped for a Living
I suppose that she sees it that way because of her experience. Many of the
men with whom she dealt, were physically rough and abusive. She also says
that even in instances where they wanted to play sado masochistic games in
which they played the victim, they still had the ultimate power because they
were paying. She tried to offer sexual favors which did not include actual
sexual intercourse because she found having intercourse with the customers,
intolerable. She talks about how physically unpleasant some of the men were,
how dirty, sometimes with bodies that smelled bad. In order to avoid close
physical proximity to them, she chose customers with unusual sexual fetishes
which might not involve close contact. Some of this stuff is very weird, but
they paid her to participate.
So as I read the book, I know that there's a great deal of factual
information in it, but also, her perceptions are influenced by her unique
personality. Her method for enduring her experiences, was to emotionally
detach from her body. But there were two instances in all of the years that
she did the work, that she actually felt a connection with her customer. In
one of them, the man was having intercourse with her and she felt a natural
response. As soon as he sensed her response, he said, "You don't have to
pretend to enjoy it". To her, that was a message that he didn't want a real
human connection with her and she emotionally left her body.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roger Loran
Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 3:28 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Prostitution: Being Raped for a Living
I think she is wrong about why men hire prostitutes. Heidi Fleisch
(spelling?) got it right. She was asked why would these Hollywood executives
with all their power and money and good looks to add to it hire prostitutes.
Heidi said, they aren't really paying us for sex.
They're paying us for going away afterward. Or, as a prostitute acquaintance
of mine said, they pay for sex because they want sex, but do not want the
bother of a relationship. Now, in fact, some of them may be in a romantic
relationship, but want some variety or they want it now and then be through
with it. The point is that to get sex the only other likely alternative to
prostitution is cultivating and maintaining a relationship and that is very
time consuming and a lot of work. If sex is all you want then hiring a
prostitute gets you what you want and cuts out all the extraneous bother.
On 10/31/2015 10:19 AM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
I suppose that Rachel's response would be that Bonnie was usingprostitutes.
denial, i.e., lying to herself, when she told you that story about why
she turned her first trick. However, even if Bonnie's story is
accurate, the question remains as to why she continued. Rachel says
that the prostitute is consistently functioning in a defensive mode
because the men who use prostitutes can be dangerous. Their reasons
for using prostitutes have to do with their need for power and control
and their wish to do things that they would not do with the women in
their lives. If they wanted sex within a normal context, it is
available to them without resort to paying a prostitute. So the
prostitute has to be on guard against her customer's violence at all
times. She describes some of the things that customers do to the
bodies of
mistreated at home. She did not need the money.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roger Loran
Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 11:44 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Prostitution: Being Raped for a Living
I've told this story before, but let me repeat it. I remember driving
down an interstate highway with three women in the car. We passed an
apartment complex near the highway. All the women were in their
twenties and one of them was named Bonnie. As we passed the apartments
Bonnie commented that she had lived there when she was thirteen. She
started reminiscing. She said that at thirteen she would walk up to
the interstate and hitch hike into town where she turned tricks on the
stroll. She said that often the person who picked her up would be her
first customer of the night. She said that she was not abused or
Anything that she bought with the money she made her parents woulddo it.
have bought for her if she had asked for it. And no one ever forced
her to
She went on to say that her motives were the adventure and theit is hard to say that she did not choose to start it out.
excitement of it all. I don't know how long she worked as a street
walker, but she had given it up at the time she was telling the story
except for an occasional trick when she needed a little extra to pay a
bill. Nevertheless, what she was doing at the age of thirteen did
launch her into a career in the sex industry. She and the other two
women were my coworkers at the time when I was employed in a strip
club. As I have said, I have known any number of other prostitutes,
but it is not like I interviewed any of them about how they got
started and what it led to. I just know that there were a lot of stray
comments to the effect that they really did not want to work in that
profession, that they regarded their customers with contempt and that
they needed the money and that this was the easiest way of making
money that they had available to them. That is, I concur that it is
not really a free choice. However, Bonnie's description of how she was
initiated into the business is about as close to it being a free
choice as you can get. Later on the choice may have become less free,
but
On 10/30/2015 10:07 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
Abby,enterprise.
You'd really be interested in this book. Rachel began prostituting at
age 14 and she describes what her family and childhood were like and
how her experiences led to prostitution. From what I've read so far,
I believe that she thinks that all women who become prostitutes, do
so because of financial necessity and very often also, psychological
and/or sexual damage that has befallen them. In the part of the book
that I'm reading right now, I think she's trying to say that becoming
a prostitute is never a choice that is freely made and that the
images in books or films of happy or contented prostitutes, are false.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Abby
Vincent
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 7:00 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Prostitution: Being Raped for a Living
Let's start by saying there's no such thing as a child prostitute.
Girls under eighteen should never be regarded as engaging in free
They can't consent to sex. If police are involved, they should beThrough Prostitution.
protecting these girls as victims, not arresting them as criminals.
Abby
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Miriam
Vieni
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 2:43 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Prostitution: Being Raped for a Living
Bob,
I'm reading her book now. I think you might want to read it. It is
very informative and well written. I have not gotten to the point in
the book where she talks about solutions, but what she does make
clear is her very strong belief, backed up with experience and
observation, that women who are prostituted, are always in danger,
that the choice is not a free one but dictated by the circumstnces of
their lives, and that the image of a woman, in charge of her life,
making a free choice to be a high class escort, is a myth which has
nothing to do with the reality of the business. She also says, and
you need to read the book to understand why, that a woman working on
the street, is much more capable of protecting herself from danger
than one working in a hotel or a brothel. The book is on Bookshare.
Paid For: My Journey
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bob Hachey
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 5:17 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Prostitution: Being Raped for a Living
Hi Miriam,
Rachel's is indeed a tragic story given that she was a child
prostitute and the violence she endured.
As I read more and more articles on both sides of the prostitution
legalization debate I am coming to believe that perhaps whether
prostitution should be legal or illegal is not the most important
question. Perhaps it is that the more important question is why do we
allow any kind of violence against women? And, boy do we ever allow
such violence. Whether the sex is paid for or not, nonconsentual
touching or penetration ought to be dealt with quickly and harshly.
IT seems to me that whether or not prostitution is legal does not
determine the level of violence and violation. And, we've got a long
way to go if we ever do want to get serious about putting an end to
the violence and violation. Heck, we can't even stem the tide of
human trafficking of minors! WE need to create an environment where
all women are better protected from violence and violation. That goes
for your girlfriend, your wife, your stister and the local prostitute
as well. Bob Hachey
