Here are some basic instructions:
http://email.about.com/od/outlooktips/qt/Access_Gmail_with_Outlook_2003_or_XP.htm
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roger Loran Bailey
Sent: Saturday, June 4, 2016 8:56 PM
To: Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: G Mail
I really do not see why you would have responded similarly. My advice about how
to explore the Gmail site was largely generic. That is, I have noticed that a
lot of people start asking questions on email lists about web sites or software
that make it clear that they have not tried to read the directions first.
Really, that is the first thing you do when you want to know how to use
something. Even if you buy a pocket calculator at a checkout line and you don't
know how to use all the functions you read the instructions. I don't see why so
many people miss that. I remember when I was subscribed to the Stream users
list someone showed up and started asking what happens if you press this key or
that key. That just shows a complete unfamiliarity with the machine. What do
the people on such a list do? Teach the questioner from step one how to
completely use the device? What that person needs to do is read the manual and
then come back with specific questions that they did not understand when
reading the manual. You often ask the same kind of questions in the form of a
statement and you did make that statement in regard to Gmail. I think you said
that you didn't have a clue as to how to set it up with your email program.
Well, I was in no position to answer the implied question in that case except
to tell you that you do it the same way you did it to get your other address to
work with it.
But that implied question keeps coming up. On the BARD Talk list someone
suggested that you use Firefox for something that would not work for you in
Internet Explorer. Your reply was that you didn't have a clue how to use
Firefox. The implied question is will all of you teach me how to do it from
square one. That is just about impossible. What you need to do is to try it out
and then when you run into a snag you ask specific questions. Now, this is not
especially relevant to what I am talking about, but let me say that for the
specific purpose you were being recommended Firefox you didn't have to learn
anything anyway. All you needed to do was to copy what was in the address bar
in Internet explorer and paste it in the address bar at Firefox and then click
the links or buttons that would not work in Internet Explorer. If you were
going to do other things it might take a bit of learning. But back to what I
said about Gmail. After I said that you set up Gmail with your email program
the same way you did with the other address I wanted to give you a little
extra. If you are unfamiliar with Gmail you will want to explore the web site
just like you should explore any other site that you are planning to use
regularly. The way you should do that strikes me as obvious, but so many people
seem to entirely miss it. It is just another version of reading the
instructions first. I anticipated that it was likely that if I just said that
you should go there and adjust the settings the way you wanted them you would
say that you didn't have a clue how to do it. I am sorry, but that is what you
say about so many other things. So I just gave instructions for exploring the
web site just like I have given it to so many other people on other email
lists.
I give instructions that are specifically designed to find other instructions
on the web site. Those instructions should be read. If you read them then you
can then ask questions that can actually be answered on an email list. Now, I
told you this, but I was not really singling you out. For some reason this
whole concept of reading the instructions seems to escape so many people, so I
often advise it and if the person whom I am advising already knows to do that
then the only downside is that I have wasted some amount of time typing it out.
Being the recipient of a complete tantrum was completely unanticipated on my
part though.
On 6/4/2016 5:46 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
Roger,
I know you aren't purposefully inserting particular tones or feelings
into what you write. I do truly understand that. And if anyone else
had written a message to me, giving me the same information without
first asking if I'd looked at that g mail website and what had
happened, I would have responded similarly. I kept going back and
looking at it and going through it. I'm terrible with this stuff. I
have no instinct for it. I keep saying that over and over again.
There are things that I can't do. It's my age or my brain or my
personality or something. Well, actually, it is partly my age because
my brain is more sluggish than it was. I'm absent minded now. But it
was never my thing. Part of our problem is that this is email. Writing makes
communication harder. But I'm sorry that I hurt your feelings.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Loran Bailey [mailto:rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2016 3:21 PM
To: Miriam Vieni; blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [blind-democracy] Re: G Mail
Lately I have actually been refraining from commenting on this list much.
Just lately I have been refraining because I just keep getting this
kind of bashing. Somehow, though, I thought that making suggestions on
how to solve an email problem would be something really innocuous.
How could I be bashed just for making a few suggestions even if I
might be wrong about what I was saying? Yet, I get the bashing anyway.
Okay, perhaps I was not making the most helpful suggestions. Like I
keep saying, I am not a technical whiz despite that I keep being told
that I am or that I am somehow technical minded. It does not surprise
me in the least that someone else might be more helpful than I am. I
would ask you this though. If someone other than I had said the exact
same thing in an effort to help you would you have gotten so bent out
of shape? Somehow I doubt it. I will repeat, though, I do not insert
tones in my messages. I do not insert tones because I don't have the
slightest idea how to insert a tone and in this context I am not even
sure what the word tone even means. It seems that you are using it in
the same way that the word innuendo is used, that is, the inclusion of
hidden messages. I do not do that. The discussion about poetry and how
I have such a difficult time understanding that because of all the
hidden messages should have made you understand that. If you think you
are getting hidden messages from me you are not. Anything like that is coming
from within yourself. It is your imagination.
Take me literally because I am a literal person. If you are so
determined that anything I say is going to hurt your feelings I can't
stop you. But I know that I am only providing information and not
indulging in silly games of hidden messages to hurt feelings. You also
might want to consider the fact that I have feelings too.
On 6/4/2016 9:19 AM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
Other people have told you the same thing. Carl has very gently toldthink you are being helpful.
you the same thing. You're getting this feedback over and over again
from not just me, not just other people on the list, but also, I've
seen it occasionally on BARD Talk. But you cannot hear it or you
refuse to hear it. So you continue to hurt people's feelings when
you
You're not willing to think about how you're saying things andcopy of his response to you.
perhaps changing how you're saying things. And you refuse to
acknowledge when you're incorrect about something. Both Carl and
Alice have sent me copies of what they send to the list and of what
they get from the list so I won't be shut out. The only way I knew
what you'd written to me was that it was attached to Carl's response
to you and he sent me a
Frank, who can really be a bastard, has been more of a help on thiscan't.
than you. Amazing! If Carlos or someone gets the G mail to work
through my Outlook, then I can participate on the list. Otherwise, I
Miriamme.
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Loran Bailey [mailto:rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 11:33 PM
To: Miriam Vieni
Subject: Re: [blind-democracy] Re: G Mail
Well, I don't know what you mean about my tone. If I have something
to say I just go ahead and say it. If you or anyone else is missing
something and I think I can see what it is then I try to explain it.
There is nothing condescending about that. If, though, you are
determined to interpret everything I have to say as condescending
then I suppose you will do so no matter how I mean it.
On 6/3/2016 10:47 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
I didn't get 2 copies because you sent it from the list. If you
wanted me to get a copy, you needed to send 1 to the list and a copy
to
me.It doesn't matter to whom you send it if it's coming from the list.
If you send me a copy on the cc line, it's coming directly from you
to
helping.And you may think that what you wrote was helpful, but it sounded
and felt condescending. All of us have commented to you about this before.
Usually, I don't respond so strongly to your tone although some
others do. But a lot of very unpleasant things are happening in my
life just now so I have less tolereance for your particular way of
it.Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Loran Bailey [mailto:rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 8:54 PM
To: Miriam Vieni
Subject: Re: [blind-democracy] Re: G Mail
I did respond to you on list, but because you said that you were not
getting list messages I did a reply to all. You should have gotten
two copies if you got both the private and the list reply. By the
way, offering advice and trying to be helpful is not lecturing you
as if you were an incompetent fool.
On 6/3/2016 2:24 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
Roger responded to me on list when I have said, over and overa lazy fool because I can't.
again, that I'm not receiving anything from the list. What does that tell
you?
I have looked and looked at the G mail page. I even found all the
key strokes for screen readers. I even found the notification from
freelists that I'd asked to subscribe, and after incredible
difficulty, accessed the email and gone to the link to reply. So
it's not like I was just sitting back and whining and doing nothing.
However, although it may be difficult for Roger to accept, we don't
all function in the same manner or have the same skill sets. Frank
has told me that I can use G mail through my Outlook email program,
but it requires some actions to be completed. He outlined them. I
hope he included everything because my sighted friend who is quite
competent with a computer, might be able to do it. However, most
people, sighted or not, would not know what to do. I'd prefer that
someone with real competence and confidence, do it remotely. Right
now, I can't find anyone. I have no doubt, however, that Roger has
the capability to learn how to do these things for himself. I don't
begrudge him that capability. I just don't want to be lectured at
and be made to sound like
Miriamembarrassment.
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Jarvis [mailto:carjar82@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 10:41 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Miriam Vieni
Subject: Re: [blind-democracy] Re: G Mail
I'm assuming that the message here was from Roger. Very logical.
And very direct. In my youth, had I encountered a teacher who
sounded like Roger, I would have shrunk back in my seat, red faced
with
But at my advanced age, and with years of working with a wideinstruction.
variety of people, I have come to believe that all brains do not
track the same. And in this, they are neither superior nor
inferior to one another. Just different.
I have had the misfortune to have read, over and over, pages of
instructions, referred to me on-line. "Help" files usually mean,
"Trouble", for me. If I simply read these pages, I would come away
wondering how I'd ever reached my current age, and status. But
from experience, I know that I am teachable. I just need to have
hands on
Carl Jarvis
On 6/2/16, Roger Loran Bailey <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I don't know which email program you are using, but just set it up
to receive messages from your Gmail address the same way you set
it up to receive the email from your other address and then use it
just like you have been using your email all along. It would be
good, though, to log into your account at mail.google.com and poke
around adjusting settings until you have it configured the way you
want
either.I suppose you will be saying that you don't have a clue how to do
that
Here is the advice that I give everyone who is visiting a web siteto answer them.
that they are planning to make regular use of. Put your screen
reader on continuous read and read the entire home page from top
to bottom including any navigation headings and footers. While you
are doing that take note of any links labeled FAQ, about us or
other links that promise to give you information about the site.
Then click on each of those links and read the pages you are taken
to from top to bottom too. If there are instructions then follow them.
Once you do that and familiarize yourself with the web site you
will be in a much better position to ask intelligent questions if
you still do not understand something. There are so many people
who have not bothered to take these steps to familiarize
themselves with a web site they are going to use and then get on
email lists and ask questions so broad that even an expert on that
site will have a hard time knowing where to start
On 6/2/2016 6:52 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
Have an account, but don't have a clue how to use it.
Miriam
