There is a difference between decriminalizing and legalizing.
Dsecriminalizing means that you don't arrest people or put them in jail for
an activity. Legalizing the activity means that you set up a structure to
enable it. I do not want to imprison young girls or boys for prostituting
themselves, or anyone else for that matter. They would not be choosing
prostitution if life offered them something better. However, I do not want
to set up a legal and financial structure to enable prostitution to thrive
and to enable entrepreneurs to get rich because of it.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 2:53 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Beyond Amnesty: The Battle Over Sex Work
Decriminalization
Well, it isn't an easy fix. In an ideal world, youngsters would be properly
housed, clothed, fed and loved. They would be exposed to a challenging
educational experience and encouraged to reach their fullest potential. But
instead, we send out a few social workers to try to salvage broken Spirits
from the cruel ghettos. If we truly valued our young, as our politicians
keep assuring us through their lying teeth, we would not be talking about
legalizing prostitution.
Young people would have more respect for their own bodies, as well as the
bodies of others.
Somehow we must change directions and priorities if we are going to hope for
any future at all. At our best, we are on the edge of greatness. At our
worst, we are going under and taking the world with us.
Carl Jarvis
On 8/18/15, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Well, I'm not sure that prostitution is just like any other employment.
Think about those workers contracted to work in Dubai who are lawful
workers with contracts which actually make them slaves. That's why
people are demonstrating against the NYU and art museum being built
there. I think it's there. Set up a so called sex industry, and you'll
have black and brown teens being legally placed in regulated slavery.
It's one thing to decriminalize. It's another thing to set up an
industry with high paid bosses, tax revenues for the state, and low
paid workers. That's what Hedges and all those do gooders are afraid
of. There has to be a way to decriminalize this work without
sanctioning it.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 12:41 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Beyond Amnesty: The Battle Over Sex
Work Decriminalization
It's interesting that once we put a label on an industry, we see it
differently than other industries. Maybe instead of Prostitutes, we
should substitute, Hotel Workers. The hotel industry is
regulated...sort of...and employees have certain expectations for
regular fair pay, working hours, safe working conditions and whatever
fringe benefits are negotiated. Then there are those of us who are
private contractors. We sign an agreement, called a contract, saying
what work we will perform and what our contracting agency will
provide.
If prostitution were legalized in the manner of any other industry,
regulations could be drawn up and hopefully, enforced. Brothels would
be inspected regularly and fined for non compliance. Those
prostitutes who desired to run their own business would sign a
contract with their state, and would be regulated in the same manner.
Pimps, if any, would become the employee of the prostitutes rather
than their Masters. Maybe instead of calling them Pimps, they would
become PR Representatives.
It doesn't matter if you agree with prostitution or not. Many
industries exist that we don't especially like, but tolerate because
there is a legitimate demand. Would I want any of my children selling
sexual services?
Hell no! But neither do I want them risking their lives in many
existing industries that fudge the laws in order to profit the owners.
The answer is not to make such work illegal, but rather, to make it
even handed with regulations and strong enforcement.
And finally, what is it with these, "Do Good er" folks who don't want
government telling them what to do, but think nothing of telling other
people what they can and cannot do with their bodies?
Here's a News Flash for those folks who think that if we return to the
"Good Old Days", everything will be fine:
There Are No Good Old Days!!! Never were. Each time period was just
as messed up and full of stress as the next one or the previous one.
Only in our minds were there ever any good old days. And guess what,
fifty years from now, folks will long for these good old days. So
let's stop trying to force old beliefs and standards on today's
people. Let's legalize prostitution and set up rules and
enforcements. If it doesn't work, we cn always return to....you know.
Carl Jarvis
On 8/18/15, Bob Hachey <bhachey@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
OK, so to clarify, you are against taking legal action against-+ the
clients of prostitutes?
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Miriam
Vieni
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 9:35 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Beyond Amnesty: The Battle Over Sex
Work Decriminalization
Bob,
Actually, I agree with you. I was remembering our past discussions
which were based on an article that Chris hedges wrote. I agree that
sex work should be decriminalized. There is a distinction between
decriminalizing an activity and legalizing it and acdtually, that
distinction is made in this article. When sex workers talk about, I
think they call it, the Nordic solution, and say that they are
opposed to that, it is that kind of legalization that they are
opposed to. It puts the power in the hands of brothel operators. But
I do agree absolutely withDoogan.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bob Hachey
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 6:44 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Beyond Amnesty: The Battle Over Sex
Work Decriminalization
Hi Miriam,
Thanks for sharing this one. Based on past discussions, you and I are
on opposite sides of this issue. I do believe that doogan and Cirkin
have it right here and that the best approach is to decriminalize
this activity on both sides of the street.
Perhaps what we do need are laws that put more limits on managers of
brothels such that the majority of the money earned by the prostitute
is kept by the prostitute. And, I'd continue to outlaw street pimps.
I think we can agree that we want to put an end to violence and
children in the sex trade. I was going to say we agree on the
elimination of exploitation, but I'm thinking that you believe that
any kind of sex for hire relationship is exploitation. . Would you
argue that women like Doogan have been exploited for so long that
they do not see the error of their opinions?
One of the great things about this list is that we can have
intelligent discussions about extremely emotional hot-button type
issues and still remain friends.
Bob Hachey
