[bksvol-discuss] Re: FW: E-Book Standards
- From: "Gerald Hovas" <GeraldHovas@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 01:46:36 -0500
Evan,
Just because DAISY supports formatting, it doesn't mean that it's being
used.
Any book which was submitted in TXT wouldn't have any formatting, and some
people still insist on working in TXT. BTW, the only logical explanation
that I've heard so far for why volunteers are still working in TXT is that
they are editing with older electronic Braille devices which only support
that format.
Also, you shouldn't assume that all Chapter headings are centered in print
books. I think I've seen more which are not centered than I have that are.
Remember that BRF is formatted Braille, so don't assume that just because
you see a lack of formatting in the BRF book that it exists in the DAISY
book. I've heard many complaints about BRF not being perfect, but I have
yet to hear of an example where a specific DAISY book has formatting that
its BRF counterpart does not. If you know of specific examples where
formatting exists in the DAISY book but not in the BRF, then you should
report them because Engineering needs examples of problems before they can
be fixed.
HTH
Gerald
-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Evan Reese
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 12:29 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: FW: E-Book Standards
If Daisy has this structural markup, why are brf files so unformatted: Not
blank lines, no centering of chapter titles, and such. Even the Megadots I
used ten years ago could read the format from a word processor file and do
such things, and many others. Why are the Bookshare brf files so lacking in
format? If Daisy has this structural markup, what happens to the brf files
so that they lose even elementary formatting? If Bookshare processes the
rtf files before they go through the Braille translator, then that is
perhaps where they lose all their formatting. But if that is true, how is
it that Daisy files don't lose this structural markup as well? If whatever
Bookshare does to the rtf files preserves structural markup in Daisy files,
why is almost all formatting lost in the brf files? If the rtf files
destined to become Daisy files go through the same file processing as brf
versions before they are converted into Daisy or brf files, then what kind
of structural markup would be left in the Daisy version? I would tend to
think not very much if the brf versions are anything to go by.
In other words: If the Daisy files Bookshare publishes have any kind of
structural markup beyond New Paragraph and New Page - which is all the brf
files have - how is it that the brf versions can't have better formatting?
If the Daisy versions don't, will the new Daisy specification have any
impact on getting brf versions to retain mor of the appearance of the
original book?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jake Brownell" <jabrown@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 10:14 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: FW: E-Book Standards
> Tracy and Sue,
>
> No one has said anything about not continuing to produce BRF files. You
> won't hear about them as much as there is really no development that can
> be done with them. The beauty of DAISY is it's structural markup something
> Braille lacks, unfortunately.
>
> Organizations are naturally interested in how digital book files from
> publishers can easily be turned into full blown DAISY books with
> structural markup still in tact. For instance when better data like page
> numbers is known, the better the quality of output files (Braille
> included) that will result.
>
> I'm frankly surprised that you would think that BookShare would not know
> that Braille is very important to people who cannot use talking books.
> I've seen where some volunteers have questioned BookShare's commitment to
> producing Braille books, somewhat excessively. After all, those of us who
> enjoy DAISY are not pounding on their doors because BookShare doesn't
> support the latest DAISY spec yet. Since that spec has come out, BookShare
> rolled out a BRF upgrade, not a DAISY one.
>
> Jake
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "siss52" <siss52@xxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 8:59 AM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: FW: E-Book Standards
>
>
>>
>> Hi Tracy,
>>
>> You said it! They will HAVE to keep the brf files coming.
>>
>> Sue S.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 8:36 AM
>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] FW: E-Book Standards
>>
>>
>> Once again I see people talking about Daisy and not BRF. I hope that BRF
>> is not going to be left out in the cold if/when Bookshare gets more books
>> directly from publishers. I know more people use audio than braille, but
>> braille is darned important to those of us who use it, and essential to
>> people who can't hear audio.
>> Tracy
>>
>>>> Gerald
>>>>
>>>> _____
>>>>
>>>> From: Jim Fruchterman [mailto:Jim.F@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 4:14 PM
>>>> To: Gerald Hovas
>>>> Cc: Janice Carter; Jennifer Sutton; Cindy Wentz
>>>> Subject: E-Book Standards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for bringing this to my attention, Gerald.
>>>> I'm not on this list, so
>>>> it would be great if you forwarded on my answer to
>>>> Cindy's question.
>>>>
>>>> Jennifer Sutton is most on top of this specific
>>>> project, since she's been
>>>> part of it. And of course, George Kerscher of the
>>>> DAISY Consortium is part
>>>> of this work as well. Our main interest in being
>>>> involved is to ensure that
>>>> the next version of the Open ebook standard is more
>>>> accessible, since that
>>>> can only benefit Bookshare.org and our users. My
>>>> feeling is that if all
>>>> books were perfectly accessible electronically
>>>> through mainstream channels,
>>>> that would be absolutely the best thing for people
>>>> with print related
>>>> disabilities. However, I don't think this one
>>>> standard change is anything
>>>> more than a slight evolutionary step, and we're
>>>> trying to ensure it's
>>>> forward and not backward!
>>>>
>>>> To go a little further, one additional thing that
>>>> tends to make ebooks
>>>> inaccessible is not so much the underlying format,
>>>> but the nature of the
>>>> digital rights management solution on the specific
>>>> platform. That's
>>>> especially true when the underlying format is an XML
>>>> text-based format,
>>>> which is quite accessible and which is the case in
>>>> the format being
>>>> discussed below, as opposed to a visual rendering
>>>> format like Adobe's PDF.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, we're working on all of these things.
>>>> For example, we're
>>>> starting to work with Adobe to make it easier for
>>>> publishers to spit out
>>>> high quality accessible DAISY out of Adobe book
>>>> publishing products. Our
>>>> long range goal is to steadily increase the
>>>> percentage of our new books that
>>>> come directly from publishers, and the better they
>>>> can make the books, the
>>>> better the reading experience will be!
>>>>
>>>> Jim Fruchterman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _____
>>>>
>>>> From: Cindy Wentz [mailto:cindy2u@xxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>> Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 8:39 PM
>>>> To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [bookshare-discuss] E-Book Standards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can anyone interpret the meaning of this article?
>>>> Would it make Bookshare
>>>> obsolete? Would it make many many more books
>>>> accessible through speech?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>>>>
>>>> Contact:
>>>> Nicholas Bogaty
>>>> Executive Director
>>>> International Digital Publishing Forum
>>>> 212-924-9081
>>>>
>>>> Industry Adopts eBook Standards
>>>>
>>>> Wide Industry Implementation Planned for IDPF's New
>>>> Standards for
>>>> Digital Publications
>>>>
>>>> New York, NY (June 20th, 2006) - Major software
>>>> companies and device
>>>> manufacturers have announced plans to support new
>>>> electronic book
>>>> standards developed within the International Digital
>>>> Publishing Forum
>>>> (IDPF). The companies will support these standards
>>>> in their next
>>>> generation software and devices, alleviating many of
>>>> the previous file
>>>> interoperability and production issues affecting the
>>>> eBook industry
>>>> and its customers.
>>>>
>>>> The standards are created by two groups within the
>>>> International
>>>> Digital Publishing Forum (IDPF), the trade and
>>>> standards organization
>>>> for the digital book industry. The IDPF has
>>>> previously developed the
>>>> already widely adopted Open eBook Publication
>>>> Structure (OEBPS)
>>>> standard. The two groups are the Unified OEBPS
>>>> Container Format
>>>> Working Group and the OEBPS Working Group.
>>>>
>>>> Garth Conboy, President of eBook Technologies, Inc,
>>>> and co-Chair of
>>>> both working groups, commented, "This is a very
>>>> exciting time for the
>>>> industry - vigorous standards setting and adoption
>>>> efforts are under
>>>> way, new technologies, products and companies are
>>>> entering the market,
>>>> and these factors as well as innovative marketing
>>>> and searching will
>>>> drive increased digital content availability."
>>>>
>>>> Emerging Digital Publication Standards
>>>>
>>>> The Container Format working group is set to release
>>>> a container
>>>> format to allow publishers to release only a single
>>>> standard file into
>>>> their sales and distribution channels instead of the
>>>> multiple
>>>> proprietary files that they currently produce. The
>>>> new ZIP-based
>>>> proposed standard, OEBPS Container Format (OCF), is
>>>> an extension of
>>>> the packaging format defined by the OpenDocument
>>>> OASIS Standard
>>>> (ISO/IEC 26300).
>>>>
>>>> "Adobe has been very pleased with the rapid
>>>> progress within IDPF
>>>> towards creating an open and neutral container
>>>> format", said Bill
>>>> McCoy, GM ePublishing, Adobe Systems, Inc. "An open
>>>> packaging
>>>> technology clearly has applicability across multiple
>>>> areas of our
>>>> solutions, including eReading systems, and we look
>>>> forward to working
>>>> with industry participants to finalize this
>>>> community-developed
>>>> standard in the coming months".
>>>>
>>>> The container format is expected to be submitted to
>>>> the IDPF for
>>>> official approval in the next several weeks. A
>>>> draft specification is
>>>> publicly available at:
>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.idpf.org/doc_library/informationaldocs/ocf10-20060612.pdf
>>>>
>>>> In the second specification, the OEBPS Working Group
>>>> is developing the
>>>> next generation of OEBPS to improve this XML-based
>>>> standard as both a
>>>> production and a final delivery format for digital
>>>> publications. The
>>>> effort will focus on detailed control of content
>>>> rendering, navigation
>>>> and accessibility, and alignment with other
>>>> standards efforts.
>>>>
>>>> Software & Device Implementation
>>>>
>>>> At the IDPF Connected & Mobile 2006 conference in
>>>> May, Adobe Systems
>>>> demonstrated a forthcoming thin-client application
>>>> for reading-centric
>>>> secured content, codenamed "Twist", that will
>>>> support OEBPS-based and
>>>> PDF content. Also, eBook Technologies, Inc.
>>>> featured an application
>>>> built on the OEBPS Container Format (OCF) at the
>>>> conference.
>>>>
>>>> Other reading application companies also voiced
>>>> support for the
>>>> upcoming specifications:
>>>>
>>>> "Mobipocket has been a great supporter of open
>>>> standards in the eBook
>>>> world since the OEBPS creation. We are excited
>>>> about this new
>>>> initiative, which is the right way to go to make
>>>> this market
>>>> mainstream. We plan to fully support this new
>>>> standard in our product
>>>> line," said Thierry Brethes, CEO & co-founder of
>>>> Mobipocket.com, an
>>>> Amazon.com company.
>>>>
>>>> "OSoft intends to support the new OEBPS standards
>>>> with the upcoming
>>>> release of dotReader," said Mark Carey, CEO of
>>>> OSoft.com, an open
>>>> source document company. "The enhancements to the
>>>> standards will
>>>> improve accessibility and be more publisher and
>>>> consumer friendly. Of
>>>> particular interest to publishers is the
>>>> standardization of a master
>>>> e-book format which will greatly improve document
>>>> workflow and reduce
>>>> e-book publishing costs."
>>>>
>>>> "Motricity's vision is to increase the adoption and
>>>> consumption of
>>>> premium mobile data such as ebooks," said Elizabeth
>>>> Mackey (Vice
>>>> President and General Manager of eReader/Motricity).
>>>> "We fully
>>>> support open standards and access as the
>>>> cornerstones of IDPF's
>>>> efforts as we believe it's exemplary of the type of
>>>> collaborative
>>>> process that will build mainstream awareness and
>>>> further the
>>>> independence and productivity of the mobile
>>>> lifestyle."
>>>>
>>>> Hardware companies also voiced implementation plans.
>>>> iRex
>>>> Technologies' VP Marketing and Business Development
>>>> Willem Endhoven
>>>> stated, "iRex Technologies will support the
>>>> development of these
>>>> standards as it will accelerate the momentum in
>>>> electronic reading.
>>>> We believe that consumers will benefit from a more
>>>> harmonized, open
>>>> system approach and simplicity of use. We expect to
>>>> support the IDPF
>>>> standards for use in the iLiad e-reader in the
>>>> future."
>>>>
>>>> Cooperation with Other Information Technology
>>>> Standards Organizations
>>>>
>>>> IDPF has begun working to formalize its cooperation
>>>> and collaboration
>>>> with other organizations. While the needs of the
>>>> digital publishing
>>>> industry may require specific technologies, IDPF
>>>> policy is to build on
>>>> broader information technology standards wherever
>>>> possible.
>>>>
>>>> IDPF has recently joined the OASIS international
>>>> standards consortium,
>>>> and hopes that the IDPF OCF may be further advanced
>>>> within OASIS as a
>>>> general file containment technology standard.
>>>>
>>>> "We are happy to have the IDPF join our organization
>>>> and pleased that
>>>> they plan to contribute proposed extensions to the
>>>> OpenDocument OASIS
>>>> Standard for their Open Container Format," said
>>>> James Bryce Clark,
>>>> director of standards development at OASIS. "We are
>>>> looking forward
>>>> to working with them on future standardization
>>>> efforts."
>>>>
>>>> IDPF is also cooperating closely with DAISY, which
>>>> is a member of the
>>>> IDPF. The upcoming OEBPS revision is working to be
>>>> aligned with
>>>> requirements of the DAISY-based NIMAS initiative for
>>>> accessible K-12
>>>> textbooks.
>>>>
>>>> "The disability community is looking forward to the
>>>> day when
>>>> commercial eBooks are usable by persons with
>>>> disabilities with their
>>>> Assistive Technologies," said George Kerscher,
>>>> Secretary General of
>>>> the DAISY Consortium.
>>>>
>>>> The combined standards efforts will result in a
>>>> non-proprietary way
>>>> for publishers to deliver digital books through the
>>>> distribution chain
>>>> to consumers, similar to the MP3 format for digital
>>>> music. No patent
>>>> encumbrances are expected of either new
>>>> specification. Participation
>>>> in the Working Groups is open to all IDPF members
>>>> and documents
>>>> published by both groups are regularly posted on the
>>>> IDPF website at
>>>> www.idpf.org <http://www.idpf.org/> .
>>>>
>>>> Additional Relevant Information
>>>>
>>>> IDPF Specifications & Documents:
>>>> http://www.idpf.org/specs.htm
>>>>
>>>> Open Container Format (OCF) 0.94 Working Draft
>>>> Specification:
>>>>
>>> http://www.idpf.org/doc_library/informationaldocs/ocf10-20060612.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Open eBook Publication Structure Specification
>>>> Version 1.2:
>>>> http://www.idpf.org/oebps/oebps1.2/index.htm
>>>>
>>>> Use Cases & Requirements for Next Version of the
>>>> Open eBook
>>>> Publication Structure:
>>>>
>>> http://www.idpf.org/doc_library/informationaldocs/oebps_requirements.h
>>>> tm
>>>>
>>>> IDPF Working Groups:
>>>> http://www.idpf.org/idpf_groups.htm
>>>>
>>>> IDPF meetings & teleconference schedule:
>>>> http://www.idpf.org/events.htm
>>>>
>>>> IDPF membership information:
>>>> http://www.idpf.org/membership.htm
>>>>
>>>> About the International Digital Publishing Forum
>>>>
>>>> The International Digital Publishing Forum (IDPF),
>>>> formerly the Open
>>>> eBook Forum (OeBF), is the trade and standards
>>>> association for the
>>>> digital publishing industry. Further information
>>>> about the
>>>> organization and industry, including membership
>>>> information, can be
>>>> obtained by visiting www.idpf.org
>>>> <http://www.idpf.org/> .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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