I thought I could see mag 5.8 M13 naked eye at Cherry Rd, and did see an object there, but was I also seeing the two flanking 7th mag stars added in to make it visible, and only seeing an equivalent brighter "object"? Other objects also have faint stars nearby to help attempts at naked eye visibility. (Mag 7.9 M81 e.g. does not however.) If that's the case, how can you ever say you saw "it"? Jack Jones Saguaro Astronomy Club Public Events Coordinator Phoenix AZ spicastar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx -- See message header for info on list archives or unsubscribing, and please send personal replies to the author, not the list.