Hi Peter and Howard
I suspected that that was the problem – you can set the ‘content’ type of the
template file so that the template will behave as a template and create a new
document but that’s only half of what we need as document authors. We need
that attached template to be in place while we work, or at least have the
ability to attach it if we need it.
I’ve had no ability to change the Normal template or any files on the PC. IT
are happy for me to save templates into the Public Documents folder, but
nowhere else.
Which isn’t too bad - at least the Public user profile is consistent on all
PCs – documents don’t need to be re-mapped to different user profiles when
colleagues send documents with each other on different PCs.
Until I can have the conversation with IT to allow the Ribbon to be deployed as
a COM addin, the solution I’ve come up with is to:
1. Store an AutoOpen macro in the template, and the Ribbon addin, which
runs when the author opens the file on SharePoint.
2. When the document opens, the macro saves the template, or Ribbon addin,
to the Public Documents folder.
3. The Template, after saving to the Public Documents folder, then creates
a new document from the template and runs an AutoNew macro, which checks for
the Ribbon addin and if present loads it, and if not, prompts the author to get
it from SharePoint. The AutoNew Macro also prompts the author for Cover page,
reviewer and Address details; and then updates the document.
The Ribbon has the majority of functions for formatting and working with
documents.
It would be nice if I could at least get them to deploy the Ribbon to the
STARTUP folder so it will load automatically.
As a short term solution it’s working well as long as authors access the
templates in SharePoint via Internet Explorer, and not via Chrome (as one
senior manager did and declared to everyone that the system was broken and
needed to be thrown out)…. Hmmm.
And I seem to have a small problem which wasn’t happening in the initial
testing, but has been reported after deployment. If an author has a Report
open, and the Report template is attached, and they then want to start a second
report from SharePoint the new template won’t be able to replace the Report
template already on the PC and in use. Small, and fortunately, not
insurmountable.
Thanks for the all the feedback! It’s helped them see reason and stay with the
new solution.
Kind regards Suzy
Suzy Davis
Microsoft Word Templates, Apps for Microsoft Office
& Documentation Projects
www. <http://www.appsforoffice.com/> appsforoffice.com
(Melbourne) Australia
Email <mailto:suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter Martin
Sent: Wednesday, 11 October 2017 11:44 AM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: FW: FW: Authors using DOTM files instead of DOCX files (cross
posted to austechwriter & LinkedIn)
Of course, you could always (??) add a macro to the local template files on
every computer that has a user wanting to use the Word templates...
.....
And if you were inclined to, you could try this extraordinary way of trying to
get around stuff....
http://depressedpress.com/2015/10/26/using-macros-in-a-sharepoint-library-template/
And good luck with that....
On 11 October 2017 at 11:23, Peter Martin <prescribal@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:prescribal@xxxxxxxxx> > wrote:
What the Microsoft forum suggested back in 2012 is that it breaks....
"The problem is that Word isn't setup to keep a document attached to a template
that isn't located on the local machine. When you use a .dot from the
Office.com site it downloads the template to your local hard drive and then
uses it to create the DOC. SharePoint isn't designed to work that way. So
although it will use the SharePoint .dot template to create the new file, when
you open it a second time it will default to the normal.dot template since the
one in SharePoint is no longer available. I've seen one or two hacks that try
to get around that problem, but I haven't seen one that works consistently.
Its just not the way SharePoint is designed to work."
https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/office/en-US/5b5a08ee-eb48-4187-8874-484f8ad5e614/macros-in-a-sharepoint-content-type-document-template-do-not-execute?forum=sharepointgeneralprevious
On 11 October 2017 at 10:41, Howard Silcock <howard.silcock@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:howard.silcock@xxxxxxxxx> > wrote:
I had a quick look at this, but don't have much time just now. I discovered
that I was incorrect in my comment that if you have a document based on a
template containing macros and save it as a .docx, then those macros will stop
working. It seems that the document links back to the template and those macros
do actually run - but that wouldn't work if the SharePoint site is no longer
accessible from where the document now is.
Will look again when I have more time.
Regards
Howard
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 at 4:22 pm, Suzy Davis <suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > wrote:
Thanks Howard
That would be useful if it met our needs; I haven’t found the SharePoint IT
person yet – they could be on the other side of the globe – so might take a
while before I get to have that conversation.
Do you know where the attached template is stored, and mapped, in this case?
Does it get saved to the Templates location or somewhere else?
This is the part that astounded me about this group working in the DOTM file,
is that it had no template support – no way to update styles if required, etc.
No way to attach a different template if you needed alternative building
blocks…
The startup macro is only one part of the equation; they will need access to
the attached template going forward to allow access to building blocks.
I’ve moved all the formatting macros into an addin pretending to be a global
addin (not stored in STARTUP) – so the only macros in the template are the
startup macros; which check for the Ribbon and load it.
They problem with putting RibbonX XML in a template rather than an addin, is
that it will error when the macros it requires aren’t present (with no fix
except to remove the Ribbon XML). Not a good look for customers who might need
to open the file as a docx..
If the Ribbon was created from within Word (ie not via XML) the behaviour might
be different, but won’t be sophisticated enough for what we need. Although, I
must admit I haven’t looked at that in depth.
Kind regards Suzy
Suzy Davis
Microsoft Word Templates, Apps for Microsoft Office
& Documentation Projects
www. <http://www.appsforoffice.com/> appsforoffice.com
(Melbourne) Australia
Email <mailto:suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: Word-Pc List [mailto:WORD-PC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Howard Silcock
Sent: Tuesday, 10 October 2017 1:37 PM
To: WORD-PC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:WORD-PC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: FW: Authors using DOTM files instead of DOCX files (cross posted
to austechwriter & LinkedIn)
Hi Suzy
I have only just got around to reading your email, so I'm a bit behind in the
discussion.
I'm not sure if you know that SharePoint document libraries allow you to load a
Word template as a 'content type'. Then an author can create a new document by
selecting a drop-down that gives them a choice of content types (ie templates),
some of which may be for Word documents and others for other things (eg Excel).
When the author does this, things work similarly to creating a document
normally from a template. First, the author is not opening the template or an
existing document loaded to the SharePoint site but creating a new document
based on the template. Secondly, if your template was a .DOTM containing
macros, then the author should be able to run the macros (assuming your
environment allows it). And if you have modified the Ribbon to contain controls
that run macros, these controls should work too.
So I think the problem you describe arises when people just load the template
as if it's just another document, which I suppose is a normal enough thing to
do if nobody's told them about content types.
I recently loaded a new Word template as a content type on a SharePoint site at
my work. It was a .DOTM and contained RibbonX code that allowed a user to
select a security classification for the document. I was doubtful whether that
would work, but it actually did! Once the author has selected the
classification they can then save the document as a .DOCX, though then they
can't, of course, modify the classification again.
I don't suppose this helps with the project you describe, as it sounds like it
would be too late to do anything about that, but it's something to keep in mind.
Regards
Howard
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 at 2:48 pm, Jacques Raubenheimer <jrlistaddress@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:jrlistaddress@xxxxxxxxx> > wrote:
Hi Suzy
Alas, I have seen this too, but nowhere near the scale you have just
described--that must be some kind of record (except that ignorance has no
limits).
I know this sound arrogant of me, but I think it is simply a case of people not
knowing what they are actually doing (as opposed to what they are supposed to
be doing). So you have someone knowing something, developing a solution (the
template with ribbon-activated macros), but there being no clear long term path
of implementation, so that those using the solution "do it wrong."
You are dead right in the approach you have recommended to them, so keep going
with that.
My experience, having presented many Word training courses over the last
decade, is that most Word users, even those who would call themselves
"experienced" Word users, don't know the difference between a template and a
document (heck, most people I came across didn't even know what Word templates
were).
Microsoft is partly to blame for this, with their (un-)helpful dumbing-down of
the way the interface works (I'm referring specifically to Windows here, but
choose your product) in the name of user-friendliness, when they removed the
explicit showing of file extensions in Windows Explorer, so that the only
differentiation is by file icon (most people don't even notice the difference
between the .do?x and .do?m icons).
So to answer your question. No, this is not unheard of. But yes, it is a recipe
for disaster (or at least a huge mess, which you have described).
Jacques Raubenheimer
---------------------------------------------
Want to learn more about Word?
Visit http://insight.trueinsight.za.com/categories/word/
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0868868140
---------------------------------------------
On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 10:02 AM, Suzy Davis <suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > wrote:
Hi there
(apologies – long post)
The question: How common is the practice of large author teams to use the
template file, DOTM to create their documents – some of which are 800 pages
long??
I’ve just deployed a new template brand refresh to a little over 22,000 authors
in a global engineering and consulting company.
As corporations often do, they thought bringing the template builder in
literally 4 weeks before the brand launch would be enough time. And they
wanted a macro refresh as well!
An interesting month that I survived, and delivered on time (although we had to
cut a few corners); but there wasn’t any time for document analysis; or the
analysis of the way people need to work.
They accepted that I just needed to do the job in the way I could do it and
achieve the deadline.
One of the main things I saw when I arrived was that authors were using DOTM
files in documents, with an embedded custom Ribbon. I was notified that these
documents error when the documents are sent to customers or external
collaborators when the macros are taken out (many mail servers won’t accept
DOCM OR DOTM files). This means that the resulting DOCX with the Ribbon XML
still embedded (as an author won’t know how to take it out) will error when
that document is opened. They’ve just learn to live and accept that.
The documents are deployed via SharePoint.
I don’t know much about SharePoint. When people open the DOTM in SharePoint it
opens the DOTM file on their PC and they happily continue working in it. Even
when they save as, they don’t notice that it’s a DOTM file; and if they did and
saved it as a DOCX, they would lose macros etc.
I took one look at that and said I’ll move you towards a Microsoft Best
Practice approach – which was to add a macro into the DOTM file, that when
saved to the PC, will save it to a template location, and force the start of a
new document, and load the ribbon from an external addin. This forces people
to work in the DOCX files not the DOTM files.
The new Ribbon (with macros) is loaded as a global addin (currently via a
SharePoint download and self install), and their new documents are all attached
to a template in a common location (not under the user profile – yet) which
holds the macros and building blocks.
I’d like to move them to a Word\Startup global addin location, and a template
deployment where IT push the templates out rather than people needing to open
from SharePoint (at least for the base corporate templates) – but that will
likely take a year of discussion with IT.
Is this a common practice – working in the DOTM??
First time I’ve encountered it, and I was shocked that someone would consider
that as an option, and can only imagine that they did so while fairly
inexperienced and needing to appease a demanding corporate stakeholder under a
tight timeframe.
In companies deploying templates via Intranets or SharePoint I’ve more commonly
seen DOCX files deployed as templates.
Because of the way they’ve been working they are used to the Ribbon only being
present when they have the document (DOTM) open, and otherwise it’s not there.
With my method there is some confusion because people are expecting the Ribbon
to work no matter what document is open – but Ribbons only work in when the
building blocks, or styles are present in the current document.
To me it’s the same as trying to use your Bank app on your phone when the phone
is out of range. You get a message that that button won’t work in this
document, and move on.
From my point of view this is a maintenance nightmare. If they need new
building blocks or macros, or ribbon alternations we just update the templates,
or the ribbon file, and tell people to download the updated template or ribbon.
They would have no way to deploy these updates, except by telling people to
copy their document into the new template. Just what someone needs in an 800
page document on a time crunch. Seems bizarre to me, but maybe I’ve been
working the way I’ve been working (and avoiding corporates) for too long!
Would love to hear your thoughts…
Kind regards Suzy
Suzy Davis
Microsoft Word Templates
APPS for MICROSOFT OFFICE
& Documentation Projects
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/> www.appsforoffice.com
<http://www.appsforinteriordesigners.com/> www.appsforinteriordesigners.com
Email <mailto:suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Skype suzy.davis
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