atw: Dear, Sir or ,Madam
- From: Graeme Foster <gfs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 18:37:10 +1000
Dear, dear. Oh, dear. Or something. Hey Y'all.
How about the approach of To (Fred Smith). This clarifies exactly to whom the
item is addressed - an issue with written communications. If you don't know or
don't care - just start. Why dear, dearest, beloved yada? No benefit, all risk
of offending. If you do elect for salutation, perhaps avoid 'Dear Graeme
Foster', or Dear Foster, or Dear Graeme John, or or Dear Foster, or (today's
fave!) Dear Gram Forst (wow, all in the mail today!), or as I once received,
Dear 2364 (I don't mind being a number, but I must be number one). Use common
sense. It beggars belief that I still get letters from lawyers addressed "Dear
Madam'. One presumes that the problem is worse for women (Dear Sir/Dear Sirs or
worsterest Dear Madam). That surely has to be a $37m offence.
Using 'To ......' avoids Dear ..., dearest..., my beloved..., my esteemed
correspondent... blah. 'Hi' seems ok in these informal but insincere times
(Dear Kevin, Dearest Julia). They all have their places, but use them only if
you know what the conventions are, and you are reasonably sure your
correspondents know them. I bridle a bit at 'Hey' in a formal business
communication but!
The war of language has entered a new and dire phase. We are drowning on the
beaches. Gowers (Mr Plain Words) didn't know he existed - try to understand any
curriculum document, or (God help you) any Centrelink document (Clear? ummm
Complete? ummmm. Concise? Well, probably, but once they go over a few hundred
pages they sometimes remove all formatting and spaces to 'save paper'. Only a
cynic like me would say to make it harder to deal with the issue on the
customer's part. Correct? Well, only if it suits us, and not if we can embarass
or harass you). The war of Plain English is over - it was lost. Read Don
Watson's books. I didn't think much of his thesis, but look at the
multiplicity of examples he gives. That is our brave new world, moving forward.
Cheers, honeybunses
Gra Gra
(One apologises for the offence given in advance - no correspondence entered
into. Do not pass Go, go directly to the vilification authorities).
On 03/08/2010, at 3:08 PM, FreeLists Mailing List Manager wrote:
> austechwriter Digest Mon, 02 Aug 2010 Volume: 08 Issue: 179
>
> In This Issue:
> Re: Literature Review: Serif or Sans Serif Typefaces?
> Dear Sir/Madam,
> Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
> Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
> Re: Literature Review: Serif or Sans Serif Typefaces?
> Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
> Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
> OT - Sydney launch - Zero Carbon Australia Stationary Energ
> Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
> Re: OT - Sydney launch - Zero Carbon Australia Stationary
> Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
> Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
> OT - Sydney launch - Zero Carbon Australia Stationary Energ
> Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
> Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
> How to choose a typeface
> Re: How to choose a typeface
> Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: rh <zut@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Literature Review: Serif or Sans Serif Typefaces?
> Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 11:12:35 +0200
>
> Hi Peter,
> Thanks for adding some refreshing clarity to this hoary old topic. I would
> like to comment a point you made:
> « There still seem to be be swathes of (particularly) US writers who have
> latched onto "the beer and naked women" roles of particular fonts, and keep
> missing the point. Of course, in extreme cases, it's obvious that if you have
> extreme difficulty in reading something, you won't understand it very well.
> But that's at the extremity, and deals with exceptions, not more general
> experience. »
>
> A very large proportion of the readers of the English language manuals I
> write are not native English speakers. For them, it does not take an extreme
> case of typographic un-clarity to disturb their understanding of a text.
> Already the English words used can have various shades of meaning, and
> technical vocabulary does not translate directly between languages.
>
> A recent example in a manual I was updating had this phrase:
> « They have a turned transformer »
> The NESB (non English speaking background) technicians asked « What is a
> tumed transformer ? », because the font used put the « r » too close to
> the « n » and it looked like an « m ». In fact, it should have been « a
> tuned transformer ». A technician is obviously familiar with that term, but
> an NESB technician will have to wonder if « tumed » is one of the many
> foreign words he or she does not know.
>
> Put one or two more little anomalies like this on the page being read by an
> NESB person on a steamy Friday afternoon after a generous lunch, and the
> measure of comprehension will plummet. I certainly agree in general with what
> you are saying, but what is « extreme » in some circumstances is quite
> ordinary in others.
>
> I admire your use of analogy in explaining the concepts, it's not easy to
> strike the right balance between subjective humour and universal relevance. I
> think « the beer and naked women » label should become an industry standard
> term to differentiate between the visual experience of a typeface and its
> effect on comprehension.
>
> Best regards,
> Reg HARDMAN
> Rédacteur technique
> Paris
>
>> Let me put this another way...
> ...
>>
>> <And a Hi! and cheerio to all those out there who've been here before...>
>>
>> -Peter M
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 03:33:51 +1000
> Subject: Dear Sir/Madam,
> From: Bob Trussler <bob.trussler@xxxxxxxxx>
>
> Dear Sir/Madam,
> Is there a standard for the salutation in an email like there is for a
> letter?
> Many emails I receive start with Hi or Hey. This seems to apply to many
> formal emails, and not only my teenage children.
> Some emails have no salutation at all.
>
> Have the days of
> Dear Pat, ................ yours sincerly
> and
> Dear Sir, .................... yours faithfully
> now gone forever?
>
> The Style Manual refers to letters with Dear Sir and so on, but makes no
> mention of emails.
>
> yours faithfully,
>
> Bob Trussler
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: Lana Brindley <lanabrindley@xxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 06:55:17 +1000
> Subject: Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
>
> Hi Bob,
> I work in a fairly informal environment, so possibly I'm not the best person
> to comment. For what it's worth though, here's what I do:
>
> If it's addressed to a single person, and I know their name: Hi Tom (less
> formal) or Dear Tom (more formal)
> If it's addressed to more than one person: Hi everyone (less formal) or
> Hello (more formal) or Hi all (very casual)
> If it's addressed to a mailing list, or to a an "admin@" or "support@" type
> email address: Hi (in all circumstances)
>
> Pet hate: When the email is addressed to "admin@" and the email starts
> "Hello Admin". Please acknowledge that there are real people behind those
> email addresses, not faceless "admin" (or "support") drones.
>
> I can also understand the use of "Dear Mr Jones" or whatever too, and I
> would use it where appropriate. Our company is one of those first-names-only
> sort, though, so I don't get much occasion to trot out the Misters and
> Misses (which brings me to another point about assuming gender. But that's a
> rant for another day).
>
> L
>
> On 3 August 2010 03:33, Bob Trussler <bob.trussler@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Dear Sir/Madam,
>> Is there a standard for the salutation in an email like there is for a
>> letter?
>>
>> Many emails I receive start with Hi or Hey. This seems to apply to many
>> formal emails, and not only my teenage children.
>> Some emails have no salutation at all.
>>
>> Have the days of
>> Dear Pat, ................ yours sincerly
>> and
>> Dear Sir, .................... yours faithfully
>> now gone forever?
>>
>> The Style Manual refers to letters with Dear Sir and so on, but makes no
>> mention of emails.
>>
>> yours faithfully,
>>
>> Bob Trussler
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Cheers! Lana
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> http://lanabrindley.blogspot.com
> -----------------------------------------------
>
> Please avoid sending me Word, Powerpoint or Windows Media attachments.
>
> See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html for more
> information.
>
> ------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: "Suzy Davis" <suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 08:45:18 +1000
>
> Hey Bob
> Any email that begins with "Dear" is immediately in the category of spam
> until it proves itself to be otherwise J And it may not get that chance.
>
>
>
> If I am sending an email to someone I don't know; I will use Hi (name), and
> Hello if it's a team or more than one.
>
>
>
> My second line will be where I will identify who I am and how I got their
> name and specify why I am contacting them, and apologise for interrupting
> their day if necessary..
>
>
>
> Regards Suzy
>
>
>
> Suzy Davis
> Microsoft Word Templates
>
> & Documentation Projects
>
> Create Space
> PO Box 404
> Brighton VIC 3186
>
> Australia
> Direct +61 3 9593 6568
> Mobile +61 433 489 989
> Email suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Email suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Website www.appsforoffice.com
>
> Facebook : <http://www.facebook.com/pages/Apps-for-Office/136256423063414>
> Apps for Office
>
> Twitter AppsForOffice
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 10:04:28 +1000 (EST)
> From: Peter G Martin <peterm_5@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Literature Review: Serif or Sans Serif Typefaces?
>
> Reg:
>
> Valid point... and an example of the kind of issue that arises in the
> assessment of use of serifs etc and their effect on comprehension.
>
> In a case like this, there's clearly an understanding and comprehension
> problem. Work back from that (as you clearly did) and you find its causes
> lie in font characteristics.
>
> That procedure is clearly valid, and useful.
>
> Less likely to be valid, and more likely to be a waste of time, is the
> analysis of issues to do with font formats ("readability" or "legibility")
> followed by generalised conclusions that they must affect comprehension, or
> that they automatically support a preference of one font style over another.
>
> For a start, the latter approach ignores the amazing ability of the human
> brain to handle visual ambiguities in the everyday world.
>
> More importantly, that approach also involves a logical fallacy: we just
> don't know small font variations affect comprehension until we test the
> comprehension!
>
> You had a classic comprehension test... and worked back to its cause. That's
> logical.
>
> -Peter M
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rh" <zut@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Monday, 2 August, 2010 7:12:35 PM GMT +10:00 Canberra / Melbourne /
> Sydney
> Subject: atw: Re: Literature Review: Serif or Sans Serif Typefaces?
>
> Hi Peter,
> Thanks for adding some refreshing clarity to this hoary old topic. I would
> like to comment a point you made:
> « There still seem to be be swathes of (particularly) US writers who have
> latched onto "the beer and naked women" roles of particular fonts, and keep
> missing the point. Of course, in extreme cases, it's obvious that if you have
> extreme difficulty in reading something, you won't understand it very well.
> But that's at the extremity, and deals with exceptions, not more general
> experience. »
>
> A very large proportion of the readers of the English language manuals I
> write are not native English speakers. For them, it does not take an extreme
> case of typographic un-clarity to disturb their understanding of a text.
> Already the English words used can have various shades of meaning, and
> technical vocabulary does not translate directly between languages.
>
> A recent example in a manual I was updating had this phrase:
> « They have a turned transformer »
> The NESB (non English speaking background) technicians asked « What is a
> tumed transformer ? », because the font used put the « r » too close to
> the « n » and it looked like an « m ». In fact, it should have been « a
> tuned transformer ». A technician is obviously familiar with that term, but
> an NESB technician will have to wonder if « tumed » is one of the many
> foreign words he or she does not know.
>
> Put one or two more little anomalies like this on the page being read by an
> NESB person on a steamy Friday afternoon after a generous lunch, and the
> measure of comprehension will plummet. I certainly agree in general with what
> you are saying, but what is « extreme » in some circumstances is quite
> ordinary in others.
>
> I admire your use of analogy in explaining the concepts, it's not easy to
> strike the right balance between subjective humour and universal relevance. I
> think « the beer and naked women » label should become an industry standard
> term to differentiate between the visual experience of a typeface and its
> effect on comprehension.
>
> Best regards,
> Reg HARDMAN
> Rédacteur technique
> Paris
>
>> Let me put this another way...
> ....
>>
>> <And a Hi! and cheerio to all those out there who've been here before...>
>>
>> -Peter M
> **************************************************
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>
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>
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> **************************************************
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 10:20:00 +1000
> Subject: Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
> From: Howard Silcock <howard.silcock@xxxxxxxxx>
>
> Ahoy Suzy
>> Hey Bob
>
>> ...
>
>> If I am sending an email to someone I don‚t know; I will use Hi (name),
> and Hello if it‚s a team or more than one.
>
> Do we assume, then, that you do know Bob and that this is another style that
> you use for people you know?
>
> Howard
>
>
> On 3 August 2010 08:45, Suzy Davis <suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
>> Hey Bob
>>
>> Any email that begins with „Dear‰ is immediately in the category of spam
>> until it proves itself to be otherwise J And it may not get that chance.
>>
>>
>>
>> If I am sending an email to someone I don‚t know; I will use Hi (name), and
>> Hello if it‚s a team or more than one.
>>
>>
>>
>> My second line will be where I will identify who I am and how I got their
>> name and specify why I am contacting them, and apologise for interrupting
>> their day if necessary..
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards Suzy
>>
>>
>>
>> *Suzy Davis *
>> *Microsoft Word Templates*
>>
>> *& Documentation Projects *
>>
>> *Create Space *
>> PO Box 404
>>
>> Brighton VIC 3186
>>
>> Australia
>>
>> *Direct* +61 3 9593 6568
>>
>> *Mobile* +61 433 489 989
>>
>> *Email* suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> *Email* suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> *Website* www.appsforoffice.com
>>
>> *Facebook *: Apps for
>> Office<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Apps-for-Office/136256423063414>
>> **
>>
>> *Twitter* AppsForOffice
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: Lana Brindley <lanabrindley@xxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 10:27:47 +1000
> Subject: Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
>
> I think the definition of "know" is getting very blurry in these connected
> times! I work with engineers on the other side of the world that I have
> never physically met, but that I know very well. In a similar vein, the fact
> that we are all on this list, have contributed to discussions, and read and
> enjoyed posts by each other give us a level of "knowing" each other, even
> though we have never (and, in some cases, may never) actually shake hands.
> Mailing lists are strange beasts, in that they provide both a sense of
> anonymity, yet create a community where none previously existed.
>
> L
>
> On 3 August 2010 10:20, Howard Silcock <howard.silcock@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Ahoy Suzy
>>
>>> Hey Bob
>>
>>> ...
>>
>>> If I am sending an email to someone I don‚t know; I will use Hi (name),
>> and Hello if it‚s a team or more than one.
>>
>> Do we assume, then, that you do know Bob and that this is another style
>> that you use for people you know?
>>
>> Howard
>>
>>
>> On 3 August 2010 08:45, Suzy Davis <suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hey Bob
>>>
>>> Any email that begins with „Dear‰ is immediately in the category of spam
>>> until it proves itself to be otherwise J And it may not get that chance.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If I am sending an email to someone I don‚t know; I will use Hi (name),
>>> and Hello if it‚s a team or more than one.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My second line will be where I will identify who I am and how I got their
>>> name and specify why I am contacting them, and apologise for interrupting
>>> their day if necessary..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards Suzy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Suzy Davis *
>>> *Microsoft Word Templates*
>>>
>>> *& Documentation Projects *
>>>
>>> *Create Space *
>>>
>>> PO Box 404
>>>
>>> Brighton VIC 3186
>>>
>>> Australia
>>>
>>> *Direct* +61 3 9593 6568
>>>
>>> *Mobile* +61 433 489 989
>>>
>>> *Email* suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>> *Email* suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>> *Website* www.appsforoffice.com
>>>
>>> *Facebook *: Apps for
>>> Office<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Apps-for-Office/136256423063414>
>>> **
>>>
>>> *Twitter* AppsForOffice
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Cheers! Lana
>
> Quarrel? Nonsense; we have not quarreled. If one is not to get into a rage
> sometimes, what is the good of being friends?
> - George Eliot
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> http://lanabrindley.blogspot.com
> -----------------------------------------------
>
> Please avoid sending me Word, Powerpoint or Windows Media attachments.
>
> See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html for more
> information.
>
> ------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: LIVERANI Petra <Petra_LIVERANI@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 10:50:48 +1000
> Subject: OT - Sydney launch - Zero Carbon Australia Stationary Energy Pla
>
> Hi Everyone,
> If you're interested in Australia heading down the renewable path at faster
> than a snail's pace you should find this event very interesting.
>
> Please pass it on to anyone who might be interested.
>
> Regards,
> Petra
>
> More information:
> http://beyondzeroemissions.org/zero-carbon-australia-stationary-energy-plan-sydney-launch
>
> Hosted by the City of Sydney
> Thursday 12 August
> 6-7.45pm
> Sydney Town Hall, 483 George St, Sydney
>
> Featuring:
> Bob Carr - Former NSW Premier
> Malcolm Turnbull - Federal MP
> Matthew Wright - Executive Director Beyond Zero Emissions
> Allan Jones - City of Sydney
> MC - Quentin Dempster - ABC TV
>
>
> Before printing, please consider the environment.
>
> IMPORTANT NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachment to it are intended only to
> be read or used by the named addressee. It is confidential and may contain
> legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or
> lost by any mistaken transmission to you. The RTA is not responsible for any
> unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or attachment to it. Views expressed
> in this message are those of the individual sender, and are not necessarily
> the views of the RTA. If you receive this e-mail in error, please immediately
> delete it from your system and notify the sender. You must not disclose, copy
> or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: "Suzy Davis" <suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 11:07:30 +1000
>
> I notice with my prospects that I am in discussions with will use Hey, or
> Hiya, or even G'day - to denote some level of familiarity with me.
>
>
> I would say that you can assume that Bob and I know of each other.
>
>
>
> But it is very subjective.
>
>
>
> I think the use of "Hi (name)" follows the same rule for the use of "Yours
> sincerely" (if you have an established relationship with them, or "Yours
> faithfully" if you don't.
>
>
>
> So I don't 'know' you Bob, except through this list - but that is enough to
> place us in a known relationship, and in my world, use "Hi", or "Hey" - I
> would normally use "Hi" unless we had chatted a bit.
>
>
>
> The use of "Hey ..." when no relationship exists, tends to imply to much
> intimacy - and is likely to be used inappropriately by an inexperienced
> sales person - but then it would no doubt be accepted without resistance by
> younger people.
>
>
>
> But young people (under 35) may have a different set of rules - and lets
> face it, they are leading the way in social networking.
>
>
>
> NOTE - I have not really investigated or thought about this in any formal
> sense. Just exploring.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards Suzy
>
> Suzy Davis
> Microsoft Word Templates
>
> & Documentation Projects
>
> Create Space
> PO Box 404
> Brighton VIC 3186
>
> Australia
> Direct +61 3 9593 6568
> Mobile +61 433 489 989
> Email suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Email suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Website www.appsforoffice.com
>
> Facebook : <http://www.facebook.com/pages/Apps-for-Office/136256423063414>
> Apps for Office
>
> Twitter AppsForOffice
>
>
>
>
> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Howard Silcock
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2010 10:20 AM
> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: atw: Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
>
>
>
> Ahoy Suzy
>
>> Hey Bob
>
>
>
>> ...
>
>
>
>> If I am sending an email to someone I don't know; I will use Hi (name),
> and Hello if it's a team or more than one.
>
> Do we assume, then, that you do know Bob and that this is another style that
> you use for people you know?
>
>
>
> Howard
>
>
>
>
>
> On 3 August 2010 08:45, Suzy Davis <suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hey Bob
>
> Any email that begins with "Dear" is immediately in the category of spam
> until it proves itself to be otherwise J And it may not get that chance.
>
>
>
> If I am sending an email to someone I don't know; I will use Hi (name), and
> Hello if it's a team or more than one.
>
>
>
> My second line will be where I will identify who I am and how I got their
> name and specify why I am contacting them, and apologise for interrupting
> their day if necessary..
>
>
>
> Regards Suzy
>
>
>
> Suzy Davis
>
> Microsoft Word Templates
>
> & Documentation Projects
>
>
>
> Create Space
>
> PO Box 404
>
> Brighton VIC 3186
>
> Australia
>
> Direct +61 3 9593 6568
>
> Mobile +61 433 489 989
>
> Email suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Email suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Website www.appsforoffice.com <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
>
> Facebook : Apps for Office
> <http://www.facebook.com/pages/Apps-for-Office/136256423063414>
>
> Twitter AppsForOffice
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:28:44 +1000 (EST)
> From: Peter G Martin <peterm_5@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: OT - Sydney launch - Zero Carbon Australia Stationary
>
>
> Featuring:
>
> Bob Carr - Former NSW Premier
>
> Malcolm Turnbull - Federal MP
>
> Matthew Wright - Executive Director Beyond Zero Emissions
>
> Allan Jones - City of Sydney <= And here I was thinking he only
> owned a big chunk of
> a radio station. Who elected him?
> Naa.. maybe he's royalty!
>
> MC - Quentin Dempster - ABC TV
>
> -Peter M
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:39:36 +1000
> Subject: Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
> From: Howard Silcock <howard.silcock@xxxxxxxxx>
>
> Hi all [is this OK for people on the list?]
> I notice that this discussion has made me more than usually self-conscious
> in the emails I've been sending today!
>
> At the moment I'm having to send emails to a few quite senior people that
> I've never met and I find myself wondering: Should I say 'Dear' or 'Hi'?
> Should I use their first names or 'Mr [or Ms] xxx'? Should I put 'Regards'
> or 'See ya'?
>
> Maybe sometimes we shouldn't think too much about these things...
>
> Howard
>
> P.S. Another concern that I'm sure troubles no one else but me is that I
> think we should really write 'Hi, Fred' (with a comma) rather than just 'Hi
> Fred'. No one ever does, but it seems to make more sense grammatically. The
> 'Dear' in 'Dear Fred' is an adjective modifying the name, but 'Hi' isn't an
> adjective and doesn't modify anything, so it seems to me we should
> punctuate the phrase with a comma, as we would with 'Come here, Fred' or
> "good on ya, Fred'.
>
>
> On 3 August 2010 11:07, Suzy Davis <suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> I notice with my prospects that I am in discussions with will use Hey, or
>> Hiya, or even G‚day ˆ to denote some level of familiarity with me.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would say that you can assume that Bob and I *know of* each other.
>>
>>
>>
>> But it is very subjective.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think the use of „Hi (name)‰ follows the same rule for the use of „Yours
>> sincerely‰ (if you have an established relationship with them, or „Yours
>> faithfully‰ if you don‚t.
>>
>>
>>
>> So I don‚t Œknow‚ you Bob, except through this list ˆ but that is enough to
>> place us in a known relationship, and in my world, use „Hi‰, or „Hey‰ ˆ I
>> would normally use „Hi‰ unless we had chatted a bit.
>>
>>
>>
>> The use of „Hey ...‰ when no relationship exists, tends to imply to much
>> intimacy ˆ and is likely to be used inappropriately by an inexperienced
>> sales person ˆ but then it would no doubt be accepted without resistance by
>> younger people.
>>
>>
>>
>> But young people (under 35) may have a different set of rules ˆ and lets
>> face it, they are leading the way in social networking.
>>
>>
>>
>> NOTE ˆ I have not really investigated or thought about this in any formal
>> sense. Just exploring.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards Suzy
>>
>> *Suzy Davis *
>> *Microsoft Word Templates*
>>
>> *& Documentation Projects *
>>
>> *Create Space *
>> PO Box 404
>> Brighton VIC 3186
>>
>> Australia
>> *Direct* +61 3 9593 6568
>> *Mobile* +61 433 489 989
>> *Email* suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> *Email* suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> *Website* www.appsforoffice.com
>>
>> *Facebook *: Apps for
>> Office<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Apps-for-Office/136256423063414>
>> **
>>
>> *Twitter* AppsForOffice
>>
>>
>> *From:* austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
>> austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Howard Silcock
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 3 August 2010 10:20 AM
>> *To:* austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> *Subject:* atw: Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
>>
>>
>>
>> Ahoy Suzy
>>
>>> Hey Bob
>>
>>
>>
>>> ...
>>
>>
>>
>>> If I am sending an email to someone I don‚t know; I will use Hi (name),
>> and Hello if it‚s a team or more than one.
>>
>> Do we assume, then, that you do know Bob and that this is another style
>> that you use for people you know?
>>
>>
>>
>> Howard
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3 August 2010 08:45, Suzy Davis <suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hey Bob
>>
>> Any email that begins with „Dear‰ is immediately in the category of spam
>> until it proves itself to be otherwise J And it may not get that chance.
>>
>>
>>
>> If I am sending an email to someone I don‚t know; I will use Hi (name), and
>> Hello if it‚s a team or more than one.
>>
>>
>>
>> My second line will be where I will identify who I am and how I got their
>> name and specify why I am contacting them, and apologise for interrupting
>> their day if necessary..
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards Suzy
>>
>>
>>
>> *Suzy Davis *
>>
>> *Microsoft Word Templates*
>>
>> *& Documentation Projects *
>>
>>
>>
>> *Create Space *
>>
>> PO Box 404
>>
>> Brighton VIC 3186
>>
>> Australia
>>
>> *Direct* +61 3 9593 6568
>>
>> *Mobile* +61 433 489 989
>>
>> *Email* suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> *Email* suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> *Website* www.appsforoffice.com
>>
>> *Facebook *: Apps for
>> Office<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Apps-for-Office/136256423063414>
>>
>> *Twitter* AppsForOffice
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: Amanda Cat <amandacat22@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 03:45:13 +0000
>
> I concur, Howard. I always use a comma after "Hi" followed by <name>.
>
>
>
> I was taught that, whenever addressing a person directly, always offset with
> a comma.
>
>
>
> People at my work have commented on it and asked why I do it. Out comes the
> grammar lessons.... ;)
>
>
>
> Amanda
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:39:36 +1000
> Subject: atw: Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
> From: howard.silcock@xxxxxxxxx
> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> Hi all [is this OK for people on the list?]
>
> I notice that this discussion has made me more than usually self-conscious in
> the emails I've been sending today!
>
> At the moment I'm having to send emails to a few quite senior people that
> I've never met and I find myself wondering: Should I say 'Dear' or 'Hi'?
> Should I use their first names or 'Mr [or Ms] xxx'? Should I put 'Regards' or
> 'See ya'?
>
> Maybe sometimes we shouldn't think too much about these things...
>
> Howard
>
> P.S. Another concern that I'm sure troubles no one else but me is that I
> think we should really write 'Hi, Fred' (with a comma) rather than just 'Hi
> Fred'. No one ever does, but it seems to make more sense grammatically. The
> 'Dear' in 'Dear Fred' is an adjective modifying the name, but 'Hi' isn't an
> adjective and doesn't modify anything, so it seems to me we should punctuate
> the phrase with a comma, as we would with 'Come here, Fred' or "good on ya,
> Fred'.
>
>
> On 3 August 2010 11:07, Suzy Davis <suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I notice with my prospects that I am in discussions with will use Hey, or
> Hiya, or even G‚day ˆ to denote some level of familiarity with me.
>
> I would say that you can assume that Bob and I know of each other.
>
> But it is very subjective.
>
> I think the use of „Hi (name)‰ follows the same rule for the use of „Yours
> sincerely‰ (if you have an established relationship with them, or „Yours
> faithfully‰ if you don‚t.
>
> So I don‚t Œknow‚ you Bob, except through this list ˆ but that is enough to
> place us in a known relationship, and in my world, use „Hi‰, or „Hey‰ ˆ I
> would normally use „Hi‰ unless we had chatted a bit.
>
> The use of „Hey ...‰ when no relationship exists, tends to imply to much
> intimacy ˆ and is likely to be used inappropriately by an inexperienced sales
> person ˆ but then it would no doubt be accepted without resistance by younger
> people.
>
> But young people (under 35) may have a different set of rules ˆ and lets face
> it, they are leading the way in social networking.
>
> NOTE ˆ I have not really investigated or thought about this in any formal
> sense. Just exploring.
>
>
>
> Regards Suzy
> Suzy Davis
> Microsoft Word Templates
> & Documentation Projects
>
> Create Space
> PO Box 404
> Brighton VIC 3186
> Australia
> Direct +61 3 9593 6568
> Mobile +61 433 489 989
> Email suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Email suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Website www.appsforoffice.com
> Facebook : Apps for Office
> Twitter AppsForOffice
>
>
>
>
> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Howard Silcock
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2010 10:20 AM
> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: atw: Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
>
>
> Ahoy Suzy
>
>
>> Hey Bob
>
>
>
>> ...
>
>
>
>
>> If I am sending an email to someone I don‚t know; I will use Hi (name), and
>> Hello if it‚s a team or more than one.
>
> Do we assume, then, that you do know Bob and that this is another style that
> you use for people you know?
>
>
>
> Howard
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 3 August 2010 08:45, Suzy Davis <suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Hey Bob
> Any email that begins with „Dear‰ is immediately in the category of spam
> until it proves itself to be otherwise J And it may not get that chance.
>
> If I am sending an email to someone I don‚t know; I will use Hi (name), and
> Hello if it‚s a team or more than one.
>
> My second line will be where I will identify who I am and how I got their
> name and specify why I am contacting them, and apologise for interrupting
> their day if necessary..
>
> Regards Suzy
>
> Suzy Davis
> Microsoft Word Templates
> & Documentation Projects
>
>
> Create Space
>
> PO Box 404
> Brighton VIC 3186
> Australia
> Direct +61 3 9593 6568
> Mobile +61 433 489 989
>
> Email suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Email suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Website www.appsforoffice.com
>
> Facebook : Apps for Office
> Twitter AppsForOffice
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: LIVERANI Petra <Petra_LIVERANI@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:47:35 +1000
> Subject: OT - Sydney launch - Zero Carbon Australia Stationary Energy Pla
>
> It's Allan Jones of City of Woking fame, not that other Alan Jones.
>
> Petra Liverani
> Technical Writer / UX Designer
> petra_liverani@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Transport Management Centre
> RTA
> 25 Garden St, Eveleigh NSW 2015 | PO Box 1625, Strawberry Hills NSW
> 2012
> P: 8396 1617 | F: 8396 7950
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter G Martin
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2010 1:29 PM
> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: atw: Re: OT - Sydney launch - Zero Carbon Australia Stationary
> Energy Plan - that Jones ?
>
>
> Featuring:
>
> Bob Carr - Former NSW Premier
>
> Malcolm Turnbull - Federal MP
>
> Matthew Wright - Executive Director Beyond Zero Emissions
>
> Allan Jones - City of Sydney <= And here I was thinking he only
> owned a big chunk of
> a radio station. Who elected him?
> Naa.. maybe he's royalty!
>
> MC - Quentin Dempster - ABC TV
>
> -Peter M
> **************************************************
> To view the austechwriter archives, go to
> www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with
> "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
>
> To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION modes)
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>
> To contact the list administrator, send a message to
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> **************************************************
>
> Before printing, please consider the environment.
>
> IMPORTANT NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachment to it are intended only to
> be read or used by the named addressee. It is confidential and may contain
> legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or
> lost by any mistaken transmission to you. The RTA is not responsible for any
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> delete it from your system and notify the sender. You must not disclose, copy
> or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: "Suzy Davis" <suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 14:03:53 +1000
>
> Hello,
>
>
> Wow - that's never occurred to me - to write
>
> Hi, Jane
>
>
>
> I would write "Dear Jane,", "Hi Jane" but never "Hi, Jane"
>
>
>
> I understand the grammatical pause - but I'm not sure that I would want it -
> maybe "Hi Jane," ...
>
>
>
> It's not in common use in Australia as far I am aware.
>
>
>
> Where are yous, Howard and Amanda, located? J
>
>
>
> Regards Suzy
>
>
>
> Suzy Davis
> Microsoft Word Templates
>
> & Documentation Projects
>
> Create Space
> PO Box 404
> Brighton VIC 3186
>
> Australia
> Direct +61 3 9593 6568
> Mobile +61 433 489 989
> Email suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Email suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Website www.appsforoffice.com
>
> Facebook : <http://www.facebook.com/pages/Apps-for-Office/136256423063414>
> Apps for Office
>
> Twitter AppsForOffice
>
>
>
>
>
> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Amanda Cat
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2010 1:45 PM
> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: atw: Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
>
>
>
> I concur, Howard. I always use a comma after "Hi" followed by <name>.
>
> I was taught that, whenever addressing a person directly, always offset with
> a comma.
>
> People at my work have commented on it and asked why I do it. Out comes the
> grammar lessons.... ;)
>
> Amanda
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: Amanda Cat <amandacat22@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 04:21:50 +0000
>
>> Where are yous, Howard and Amanda, located? J
>
>
>
> Sunny (hahaha) Melbourne.
>
>
>
> I went and took grammar classes after high school to learn what they didn't
> teach me in high school and that's how I was taught. Always use a comma when
> directly addressing someone/something. It doesn't matter whether the direct
> address is at the beginning or end of the sentence - it must* be offset.
>
>
>
> I think, having a quick scour of the interwebs, that many teachers don't seem
> to teach this anymore. There are some very passionate people out there
> lamenting its loss!
>
>
>
> :)
>
>
>
> Amanda
>
>
> * Yes, I say 'must', but it's a changin' world....
>
>
>
>
> From: suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: atw: Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 14:03:53 +1000
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Wow ˆ that‚s never occurred to me ˆ to write
> Hi, Jane
>
> I would write „Dear Jane,‰, „Hi Jane‰ but never „Hi, Jane‰
>
> I understand the grammatical pause ˆ but I‚m not sure that I would want it ˆ
> maybe „Hi Jane,‰ ...
>
>
> It‚s not in common use in Australia as far I am aware.
>
> Where are yous, Howard and Amanda, located? J
>
> Regards Suzy
>
> Suzy Davis
> Microsoft Word Templates
> & Documentation Projects
>
> Create Space
> PO Box 404
> Brighton VIC 3186
> Australia
> Direct +61 3 9593 6568
> Mobile +61 433 489 989
> Email suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Email suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Website www.appsforoffice.com
> Facebook : Apps for Office
> Twitter AppsForOffice
>
>
>
>
>
> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Amanda Cat
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2010 1:45 PM
> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: atw: Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
>
> I concur, Howard. I always use a comma after "Hi" followed by <name>.
>
> I was taught that, whenever addressing a person directly, always offset with
> a comma.
>
> People at my work have commented on it and asked why I do it. Out comes the
> grammar lessons.... ;)
>
> Amanda
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 12:44:02 +0800 (WST)
> From: Stuart Burnfield <slb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: How to choose a typeface
>
> Leaving aside those pesky issues of readability, legibility, comprehension,
> etc, here's how you *really* choose a typeface:
> http://gizmodo.com/5602268/the-perfect-way-to-pick
> Stuart
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: Bill Parker <renew@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: How to choose a typeface
> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 12:53:54 +0800
>
> Or just Google "The periodic table of typefaces"
>
> Bill
> On 03/08/2010, at 12:44 PM, Stuart Burnfield wrote:
>
>> Leaving aside those pesky issues of readability, legibility,
>> comprehension, etc, here's how you *really* choose a typeface:
>> http://gizmodo.com/5602268/the-perfect-way-to-pick
>>
>> Stuart
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 15:08:11 +1000
> Subject: Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
> From: Howard Silcock <howard.silcock@xxxxxxxxx>
>
> Well, I'm in Canberra - but I don't think this is a regional thing. As
> I said, in practice almost everyone writes 'Hi Fred'. But I can't help
> thinking about the grammar and how you would parse the sentence. And
> logically I think the comma is needed. Doesn't mean I'm going to use
> it in practice, though.
> Howard
>
> On 03/08/2010, Suzy Davis <suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>>
>> Wow - that's never occurred to me - to write
>>
>> Hi, Jane
>>
>>
>>
>> I would write "Dear Jane,", "Hi Jane" but never "Hi, Jane"
>>
>>
>>
>> I understand the grammatical pause - but I'm not sure that I would want it -
>> maybe "Hi Jane," ...
>>
>>
>>
>> It's not in common use in Australia as far I am aware.
>>
>>
>>
>> Where are yous, Howard and Amanda, located? J
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards Suzy
>>
>>
>>
>> Suzy Davis
>> Microsoft Word Templates
>>
>> & Documentation Projects
>>
>> Create Space
>> PO Box 404
>> Brighton VIC 3186
>>
>> Australia
>> Direct +61 3 9593 6568
>> Mobile +61 433 489 989
>> Email suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Email suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Website www.appsforoffice.com
>>
>> Facebook : <http://www.facebook.com/pages/Apps-for-Office/136256423063414>
>> Apps for Office
>>
>> Twitter AppsForOffice
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Amanda Cat
>> Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2010 1:45 PM
>> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: atw: Re: Dear Sir/Madam,
>>
>>
>>
>> I concur, Howard. I always use a comma after "Hi" followed by <name>.
>>
>> I was taught that, whenever addressing a person directly, always offset with
>> a comma.
>>
>> People at my work have commented on it and asked why I do it. Out comes the
>> grammar lessons.... ;)
>>
>> Amanda
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of austechwriter Digest V8 #179
> ***********************************
>
**************************************************
To view the austechwriter archives, go to
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Other related posts:
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