Hi David
I just did a comparison with the scrub speed I have set in Reaper and adjusting
playback speed in Audacity. Coincidentally, my current scrub speed is the same
as Robert’s at 100 pixels per second. Without trying to do accurate
measurements, that seems pretty close to 25% playback speed. That removes my
concern about the playback speed not going slow enough.
You asked: Also, does the issue raised by Robert, that the zoom level is
changed by actions such as importing audio make any difference as to whether
you prefer the scrub speed to depend on the play at speed slider or the zoom
level? I doubt it.
By way of clarification, is playback speed preferred by Audacity coders because
it is already available? If so, I think I could live happily with that
approach. Leaving aside the complication of already highlighted material, all
that is needed is to allow material to be played backwards as well as forwards
while a key is held down. I suspect I am missing something important due to
being in Saturday morning mode.
Andrew
From: audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Behalf Of David Bailes
Sent: Saturday, 7 December 2019 1:48 AM
To: audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [audacity4blind] Re: Possible interface for scrubbing using the
keyboard.
Hi Andrew,
When you say that it would be ideal if the scrubbing could be adjusted in small
increments, do you mean that you want a speed less than a quarter, or that
you'd like to be able to enter a precise speed, rather that just choosing
between speeds a factor of two apart?
If the scrub speed was controlled by the zoom level, then you could have speeds
one eighth or one sixteenth and so on, but there is not facility at the moment
for setting an arbitrary zoom level.
In contrast, there is a dialog to set an arbitrary speed for the play at speed
slider. However there aren't currently any commands for doubling and halving
the speed - just increasing and decreasing by small amounts.
Also, does the issue raised by Robert, that the zoom level is changed by
actions such as importing audio make any difference as to whether you prefer
the scrub speed to depend on the play at speed slider or the zoom level?
thanks,
David.
On Fri, 6 Dec 2019 at 10:12, Andrew Downie <access_tech@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:access_tech@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > wrote:
I note Steve’s and Robert’s comments and like the concept. Whether using
arrows or other keys for scrubbing, it would be ideal if scrubbing could be
adjusted in small increments. For lining up an edit point, I set an extremely
slow rate and find that I can get to a suitable spot very accurately. I do not
know what speed compared to normal I use, but am pretty sure it is well below
one quarter.
Andrew
From: audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > On Behalf Of David Bailes
Sent: Thursday, 5 December 2019 11:13 PM
To: audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [audacity4blind] Re: Possible interface for scrubbing using the
keyboard.
Thanks for all of you that have provided feedback.
Concerning the suggestions made by Robert and Andrew.
For those not familiar with Reaper, in that program the edit cursor is quite
separate from the start and end of the selection. In addition, there is an
option as to whether the arrow keys just move the edit cursor, or also scrub at
the same time.
If in Audacity, the edit cursor was similarly separate, then I wouldn't see a
problem in having an option of using the arrow keys for scrubbing. However, the
edit cursor is not separate, and I think this means that the use of the arrow
keys for scrubbing in Audacity would be problematic. If a time range is
selected, then pressing the left or right arrow keys deselects the selection
and places the cursor at the start or end of the previous selection
respectively. I think that having this behaviour along side scrubbing would be
fairly strange and not provide a very clean user model.
So in Audacity, I think that having separate keys for scrubbing backwards and
forwards would be preferable.
Concerning the scrub speed being controlled by the zoom level rather than the
play at speed slider. I think that either of these options would be viable. I
think that advantages of using the zoom level are that:
1. There are already controls for increasing, decreasing, and resetting the
zoom level.
2. The speed of the scrub speed could be as high as you wanted, without the
need for that high speed to be accommodated by the play at speed slider.
Are there others?
Would the normal zoom level correspond to normal playback speed? The user could
then half or double the speed as desired. So the scrub speeds that would
normally be used would probably be one quarter, one half, one, two, four, and
maybe higher.
Unlike the play at speed slider, there currently isn't a way of setting an
arbitrary zoom level, but maybe that isn't important in practice. In one of the
scrub modes in Pro Tools, there is the same range of scrub speeds available,
that is one quarter, one half, and so on.
David.
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 at 23:06, Andrew Downie <access_tech@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:access_tech@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > wrote:
Thanks for pursuing this David. While the proposal would be most welcome, I
agree with Robert that using left and right arrows to scrub backwards and
forwards respectively would be a simpler interface. That is what Reaper does,
with zoom level determining speed of the scrub.
My main use of scrubbing would be to locate an edit point. It is so much
faster to locate a point when scrubbing than without.
Thanks again
Andrew
From: audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > On Behalf Of David Bailes
Sent: Wednesday, 4 December 2019 1:11 AM
To: audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [audacity4blind] Possible interface for scrubbing using the keyboard.
The word scrubbing seems to used in a variety of different ways, but I'm taking
it mean the ability to playback the audio both forwards and backwards at speeds
varying from very slow to very fast.
You can currently scrub using Audacity, but only using the mouse. Andrew has
expressed an interest in being able to do this using the keyboard. The
following is a proposal for a keyboard user interface for scrubbing in
Audacity, and which is quite similar to the one used in Reaper. I would be
grateful if anyone interested in having such a feature could give me feedback
about the proposal.
1. There would be one key for playing backwards and one for playing forwards.
For example, these could be the U and I keys.
2. Playback starts from the cursor position, or the start of a selection if
there is one.
3. The speed of playback is determined by play at speed slider in the toolbars.
The current range of the slider is from close to zero to three, but it might be
possible to extend this if required. There are number of existing commands for
changing the value of the slider. One of these is a dialog where you can just
type in the desired speed. These commands currently don't have default
keystrokes, but could be easily assigned in preferences.
4. After pressing one of the two keys, playback continues until the key is
released.
5. You can scrub to the end of the audio, even if there is an initial
selection. In other words, scrubbing forwards does not automatically stop at
the end of the selection.
6. Normally, when one of the keys is released, the position of the cursor is
set to the time when the key was released.
7. If during the time one of the keys is pressed the left bracket and/or right
bracket keys are pressed to set the start and/or end of the selection, when
when the scrubbing key is released the change to the selection made by pressing
the bracket keys is preserved - the position of the cursor is not set to the
time when the key was released.
David.
