I think Craig would know where to get liquid hydrogen way cheaper than that. Or
how to produce it.
--
Ian M Garcia
From: William Claybaugh<mailto:wclaybaugh2@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 1:18 PM
To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AR] Re: asteroid mining (was Re: This is cool.)
David:
If you can suggest a source for liquid hydrogen pricing I’ll use that in future.
I’ve contacted the fellow at KSC that got me the original price (yep, still
there...) and will see what he says. They placed a contract for SLS about a
year ago; that may provide current bulk pricing for Lox and LH2.
Bill
On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 10:04 AM David Gregory
<david.c.gregory@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:david.c.gregory@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Apologies my link was behind a paywall. The preview indicates that in 2019
southwest spent $4.35B on 2.1B gallons of fuel. That data represents a quite
iron clad recent price floor for any petroleum distillate fuel with an average
carbon number of ~12. (About 35 cents a pound)
Agree with Ben on the increasing irrelevance of RP (2 as 1 is generally
unavailable).
My other post was a bit opaque - I was trying to say that $3-4/lb for LH2 is a
more recent number in my experience
On Aug 18, 2020, at 7:13 AM, William Claybaugh
<wclaybaugh2@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:wclaybaugh2@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
David:
Yeah, RP-1 is a special case because the price is controlled by the government
which buys a year’s supply based on it’s demand estimate. In the past it’s
price has varied based on the price of oil, but smoothed by the government
pricing system.
That Lox is just helping up w/ inflation is to be expected: it does appear to
be a true commodity.
Hard to say about future hydrogen prices: industrial demand has grown over the
last two decades and that has apparently put some pressure on prices, relived
by the retirement of Shuttle, which was consuming (with other KSC users) about
a third of the US supply.
Bill
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 8:55 PM David Gregory
<david.c.gregory@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:david.c.gregory@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Bill- I think the price of Rp1 is a bit higher these days. Even JetA runs
about $.50/lbm.
The prices as delivered will be strongly affected by the distance from the
source. My experience is more like $3/lb. the lox price is pretty close
even in smaller quantities.
On Aug 17, 2020, at 7:08 PM, William Claybaugh
<wclaybaugh2@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:wclaybaugh2@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Anthony:
There was of course costs in storing the Lox and LH2 for Shuttle and subsequent
tank and de-tank operations but they were buried in KSC’s annual budget rather
than in the Shuttle budget.
The best I could get was the as delivered cost; we should note that they were
buying millions of pounds per month...that price estimate could be as good as
it gets.
Bill
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 6:26 PM Anthony Cesaroni
<anthony@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:anthony@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hi Bill,
Is there a significant cost to get it from the tanker into the rocket? A few
years ago, I was given a tour of the new SLV, LOX/Methane launcher facility at
KSC by NASA and Space Florida. It didn’t appear to be trivial.
Anthony J. Cesaroni
President/CEO
Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace
http://www.cesaronitech.com/
(941) 360-3100 x1004 Sarasota
(905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto
From: arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> On Behalf
Of William Claybaugh
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 8:04 PM
To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AR] Re: asteroid mining (was Re: This is cool.)
Anthony:
My source was for tank car quantities delivered at KSC.
Bill
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 5:48 PM Anthony Cesaroni
<anthony@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:anthony@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Where are these propellant prices? At the plant or loaded into the rocket?
Anthony J. Cesaroni
President/CEO
Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace
http://www.cesaronitech.com/
(941) 360-3100 x1004 Sarasota
(905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto
From: arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> On Behalf
Of William Claybaugh
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 7:28 PM
To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AR] Re: asteroid mining (was Re: This is cool.)
Henry:
RP-1 was $0.379 / lbm.; LH2 $1.774 / lbm. and Lox $0.088 / lbm.
Assumed mixture ratios were 2.4:1 and 6:1.
Because Lox appears to be a true commodity (it’s price is mostly the cost‘s of
business, the direct cost being tied to the cost of electricity) and because it
is the dominate cost for propellant, it does not appear—to me—likely that these
numbers will change much in real terms.
Indeed, because the cost of hydrogen appears likely to increase when (in the
fullness of time) the supply of natural gas runs out, my own guess would be
that the real cost of propellant will very slightly increase over the very long
run.
Bill
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 5:13 PM Henry Spencer
<hspencer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:hspencer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2020, William Claybaugh wrote:
The mixture ratio adjusted cost of Lox-RP-1 was $0.173 per lbm. in $2015
and in tank car lots delivered at KSC in CY 2000...
