Reading some of the speculation in the latest digest helps me understand why
the original poster omitted the story link. You won't catch me offering
personal theories or speculative musings on this tragic event in the absence of
additional hard data. Three years ago I was at a launch where an "I"-motor
rocket shed a fin and went horizontal 2 feet off the rail. There was a
five-year-old boy sitting on a chair next to me and I had to jump right in
front of him to keep him from being hit head on by it. Left a bruise like
being nailed by a rubber bullet. The clear lesson is to expect the unexpected,
and speculation doesn't serve either to amplify or clarify that lesson, so I'm
not going to engage in it.
Regards,
Mark L.
-----Original Message-----
From: FreeLists Mailing List Manager <ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: arocket digest users <ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2015 1:08 am
Subject: arocket Digest V3 #245
arocket Digest Wed, 18 Nov 2015 Volume: 03 Issue: 245
In This Issue:
[AR] Re: Boy Scout leader killed by model rocket
[AR] Re: Boy Scout leader killed by model rocket
[AR] Re: Boy Scout leader killed by model rocket
[AR] Re: Boy Scout leader killed by model rocket
[AR] Re: Boy Scout leader killed by model rocket
[AR] Re: Boy Scout leader killed by model rocket
[AR] Re: Boy Scout leader killed by model rocket
[AR] Re: Boy Scout leader killed by model rocket
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 00:57:11 -0600
Subject: [AR] Re: Boy Scout leader killed by model rocket
From: Thom Vincent <sworkeld@xxxxxxxxx>
Thank you, all, for the responses.
I looked into this more and have a new theory. I saw several articles
mention the man was hit by a "bottle rocket". I thought they were talking
about the little pyrotechnic rockets you buy at a fireworks store. That
didn't make any sense, so I figured they had gotten the wrong information
and ignored it.
After reading these responses, though, it occurred to me they may have been
talking about a "water rocket" -- rockets made by putting water and
pressurized air in a 2 liter plastic soda pop bottle and shooting it off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spwkO0qaoK0
If that had a hard pointy tip, no recovery mechanism deployed, and didn't
expel all its water on the way up, that could be weighty enough to kill
someone if it hit them in an eye, temple, or carotid artery. If it was one
of the more advanced types that uses multiple plastic bottles connected
together (which go higher, have more water and more weight) that would
increase the potential lethality.
http://www.aircommandrockets.com/index.htm
Beyond the obvious human tragedy, it would be both sad and ironic if this
man's death was caused by a water rocket. If so, their image as being safe
and benign may need updating.
If anyone else has info or insights, feel free to chip in ...
Thanks,
Thom
On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 8:28 PM, Rick Dickinson <rtd@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Just putting this in perspective - several people are killed every year by
being hit with baseballs, which are significantly "blunter" than model
rockets. Any head injury can be potentially fatal.
On November 17, 2015 5:51:04 PM PST, Chris Jones <clj@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
--
On 11/17/2015 7:17 PM, Thom Vincent wrote:
Does anyone know about this? The news articles are not very
informative.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-man-killed-homemade-rocket-20151116-story.html
I'm trying to figure out how a model rocket can kill somebody by
simply flying in to their face.
It only takes an unlucky hit in the wrong place to kill. If the victim
got hit in the eye, it's not out of the question for the brain to be
injured. Even a strong blow to the head from a small mass can be fatal
in some circumstances. Also, anything moving fast enough that slices a
large enough blood vessel can cause death relatively quickly.
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
On 18 November 2015 at 06:57 Thom Vincent <sworkeld@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thank you, all, for the responses.
I looked into this more and have a new theory. I saw several articles
mention the man was hit by a "bottle rocket". I thought they were talking
about the little pyrotechnic rockets you buy at a fireworks store. That didn't
make any sense, so I figured they had gotten the wrong information and ignored
it.
After reading these responses, though, it occurred to me they may have
been talking about a "water rocket" -- rockets made by putting water and
pressurized air in a 2 liter plastic soda pop bottle and shooting it off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spwkO0qaoK0
If that had a hard pointy tip, no recovery mechanism deployed, and didn't
expel all its water on the way up, that could be weighty enough to kill
someone if it hit them in an eye, temple, or carotid artery. If it was one of
the more advanced types that uses multiple plastic bottles connected together
(which go higher, have more water and more weight) that would increase the
potential lethality.
http://www.aircommandrockets.com/index.htm
Beyond the obvious human tragedy, it would be both sad and ironic if this
man's death was caused by a water rocket. If so, their image as being safe and
benign may need updating.
If anyone else has info or insights, feel free to chip in ...
Thanks,
Thom
On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 8:28 PM, Rick Dickinson < rtd@xxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:rtd@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > wrote:
> > Just putting this in perspective - several people are
> > significantly "blunter" than model rockets. Any head injury can bekilled every year by being hit with baseballs, which are
> > potentially fatal.
On November 17, 2015 5:51:04 PM PST, Chris Jones < clj@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:clj@xxxxxxxxx> > wrote:
> > >
On 11/17/2015 7:17 PM, Thom Vincent wrote:--
> > > > Does anyone know about this? The news articles are
> > > > not very
informative.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-man-killed-homemade-rocket-20151116-story.html
I'm trying to figure out how a model rocket can kill
somebody by
simply flying in to their face.
> > >
It only takes an unlucky hit in the wrong place to kill. If
the victim
got hit in the eye, it's not out of the question for the brain
to be
injured. Even a strong blow to the head from a small mass can
be fatal
in some circumstances. Also, anything moving fast enough that
slices a
large enough blood vessel can cause death relatively quickly.
> >
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
It's my understanding that in the US, rockets powered by up to 'G' class
are considered 'model' rockets.
G77-4R motor has a max liftoff weight of nearly 1.5kg
Assuming a deployment fail, an airframe mass of 1kg (2.2lbs) coming in
ballistic from even 100m (~350feet) will be travelling at 44m/s (~100mph).
If it has a cast resin nosecose with nose weight in, that hitting anyone
on the head, will do fatal damage.
Paul
On 18 November 2015 at 06:57 Thom Vincent <sworkeld@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thank you, all, for the responses.
I looked into this more and have a new theory. I saw several articles
mention the man was hit by a "bottle rocket". I thought they were
talking about the little pyrotechnic rockets you buy at a fireworks
store. That didn't make any sense, so I figured they had gotten the
wrong information and ignored it.
After reading these responses, though, it occurred to me they may have
been talking about a "water rocket" -- rockets made by putting water
and pressurized air in a 2 liter plastic soda pop bottle and shooting
it off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spwkO0qaoK0
If that had a hard pointy tip, no recovery mechanism deployed, and
didn't expel all its water on the way up, that could be weighty enough
to kill someone if it hit them in an eye, temple, or carotid artery.
If it was one of the more advanced types that uses multiple plastic
bottles connected together (which go higher, have more water and more
weight) that would increase the potential lethality.
http://www.aircommandrockets.com/index.htm
Beyond the obvious human tragedy, it would be both sad and ironic if
this man's death was caused by a water rocket. If so, their image as
being safe and benign may need updating.
If anyone else has info or insights, feel free to chip in ...
Thanks,
Thom
On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 8:28 PM, Rick Dickinson < rtd@xxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:rtd@xxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Just putting this in perspective - several people are killed every
year by being hit with baseballs, which are significantly
"blunter" than model rockets. Any head injury can be potentially
fatal.
On November 17, 2015 5:51:04 PM PST, Chris Jones < clj@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:clj@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
On 11/17/2015 7:17 PM, Thom Vincent wrote:
Does anyone know about this? The news articles are not very
informative.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-man-killed-homemade-rocket-20151116-story.html
I'm trying to figure out how a model rocket can kill
somebody by
simply flying in to their face.
It only takes an unlucky hit in the wrong place to kill. If the
victim
got hit in the eye, it's not out of the question for the brain to be
injured. Even a strong blow to the head from a small mass can be
fatal
in some circumstances. Also, anything moving fast enough that slices a
large enough blood vessel can cause death relatively quickly.
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Beyond the obvious human tragedy, it would be both sad and ironic if this
man's death was caused by a water rocket. If so, their image as being safe
and benign may need updating.
On Nov 18, 2015, at 12:57 AM, Thom Vincent <sworkeld@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thank you, all, for the responses.
I looked into this more and have a new theory. I saw several articles mention
the man was hit by a "bottle rocket". I thought they were talking about the
little pyrotechnic rockets you buy at a fireworks store. That didn't make any
sense, so I figured they had gotten the wrong information and ignored it.
After reading these responses, though, it occurred to me they may have been
talking about a "water rocket" -- rockets made by putting water and
pressurized air in a 2 liter plastic soda pop bottle and shooting it off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spwkO0qaoK0
If that had a hard pointy tip, no recovery mechanism deployed, and didn't
expel all its water on the way up, that could be weighty enough to kill
someone if it hit them in an eye, temple, or carotid artery. If it was one of
the more advanced types that uses multiple plastic bottles connected together
(which go higher, have more water and more weight) that would increase the
potential lethality.
http://www.aircommandrockets.com/index.htm
Beyond the obvious human tragedy, it would be both sad and ironic if this
man's death was caused by a water rocket. If so, their image as being safe
and benign may need updating.
If anyone else has info or insights, feel free to chip in ...
Thanks,
Thom
On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 8:28 PM, Rick Dickinson <rtd@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Just putting this in perspective - several people are killed every year by
being hit with baseballs, which are significantly "blunter" than model
rockets. Any head injury can be potentially fatal.
On November 17, 2015 5:51:04 PM PST, Chris Jones <clj@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 11/17/2015 7:17 PM, Thom Vincent wrote:
Does anyone know about this? The news articles are not very
informative.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-man-killed-homemade-rocket-20151116-story.html
I'm trying to figure out how a model rocket can kill somebody by
simply flying in to their face.
It only takes an unlucky hit in the wrong place to kill. If the victim
got hit in the eye, it's not out of the question for the brain to be
injured. Even a strong blow to the head from a small mass can be fatal
in some circumstances. Also, anything moving fast enough that slices a
large enough blood vessel can cause death relatively quickly.
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
The 911 call reportedly said he was hit by a bottle rocket. Of course, the
person calling 911 may not have been familiar with proper terminology. It's
also possible the 911 operator heard "bottle rocket" when the caller
actually said "model rocket."
On Nov 18, 2015, at 12:57 AM, Thom Vincent <sworkeld@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thank you, all, for the responses.
I looked into this more and have a new theory. I saw several articles
mention the man was hit by a "bottle rocket". I thought they were talking
about the little pyrotechnic rockets you buy at a fireworks store. That
didn't make any sense, so I figured they had gotten the wrong information
and ignored it.
After reading these responses, though, it occurred to me they may have
been talking about a "water rocket" -- rockets made by putting water and
pressurized air in a 2 liter plastic soda pop bottle and shooting it off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spwkO0qaoK0
If that had a hard pointy tip, no recovery mechanism deployed, and didn't
expel all its water on the way up, that could be weighty enough to kill
someone if it hit them in an eye, temple, or carotid artery. If it was one
of the more advanced types that uses multiple plastic bottles connected
together (which go higher, have more water and more weight) that would
increase the potential lethality.
http://www.aircommandrockets.com/index.htm
Beyond the obvious human tragedy, it would be both sad and ironic if this
man's death was caused by a water rocket. If so, their image as being safe
and benign may need updating.
If anyone else has info or insights, feel free to chip in ...
Thanks,
Thom
On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 8:28 PM, Rick Dickinson <rtd@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Just putting this in perspective - several people are killed every year
by being hit with baseballs, which are significantly "blunter" than model
rockets. Any head injury can be potentially fatal.
On November 17, 2015 5:51:04 PM PST, Chris Jones <clj@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
--
On 11/17/2015 7:17 PM, Thom Vincent wrote:
Does anyone know about this? The news articles are not very
informative.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-man-killed-homemade-rocket-20151116-story.html
I'm trying to figure out how a model rocket can kill somebody by
simply flying in to their face.
It only takes an unlucky hit in the wrong place to kill. If the victim
got hit in the eye, it's not out of the question for the brain to be
injured. Even a strong blow to the head from a small mass can be fatal
in some circumstances. Also, anything moving fast enough that slices a
large enough blood vessel can cause death relatively quickly.
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Just for reference. .. boy scouts and cub scouts DO have a "BOTTLE
ROCKET" activity. Involves 2 liter soda bottle... an air compressor...
and a launcher. It's basically a big water rocket. It is possible if
you do not follow the proper proceedure.... to put too much pressure in
the bottle and the bottle will explode on the pad.
On Nov 18, 2015 10:41 PM, "Edward Wright" <edward.v.wright@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:edward.v.wright@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
The 911 call reportedly said he was hit by a bottle rocket. Of
course, the person calling 911 may not have been familiar with
proper terminology. It's also possible the 911 operator heard
"bottle rocket" when the caller actually said "model rocket."
On Nov 18, 2015, at 12:57 AM, Thom Vincent <sworkeld@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:sworkeld@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Thank you, all, for the responses.
I looked into this more and have a new theory. I saw several
articles mention the man was hit by a "bottle rocket". I thought
they were talking about the little pyrotechnic rockets you buy at
a fireworks store. That didn't make any sense, so I figured they
had gotten the wrong information and ignored it.
After reading these responses, though, it occurred to me they may
have been talking about a "water rocket" -- rockets made by
putting water and pressurized air in a 2 liter plastic soda pop
bottle and shooting it off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spwkO0qaoK0
If that had a hard pointy tip, no recovery mechanism deployed, and
didn't expel all its water on the way up, that could be weighty
enough to kill someone if it hit them in an eye, temple, or
carotid artery. If it was one of the more advanced types that uses
multiple plastic bottles connected together (which go higher, have
more water and more weight) that would increase the potential
lethality.
http://www.aircommandrockets.com/index.htm
Beyond the obvious human tragedy, it would be both sad and ironic
if this man's death was caused by a water rocket. If so, their
image as being safe and benign may need updating.
If anyone else has info or insights, feel free to chip in ...
Thanks,
Thom
On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 8:28 PM, Rick Dickinson <rtd@xxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:rtd@xxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Just putting this in perspective - several people are killed
every year by being hit with baseballs, which are
significantly "blunter" than model rockets. Any head injury
can be potentially fatal.
On November 17, 2015 5:51:04 PM PST, Chris Jones
<clj@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:clj@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
On 11/17/2015 7:17 PM, Thom Vincent wrote:
Does anyone know about this? The news articles are not
very
informative.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-man-killed-homemade-rocket-20151116-story.html
I'm trying to figure out how a model rocket can kill
somebody by
simply flying in to their face.
It only takes an unlucky hit in the wrong place to kill. If the victim
got hit in the eye, it's not out of the question for the brain to be
injured. Even a strong blow to the head from a small mass can be
fatal
in some circumstances. Also, anything moving fast enough that slices a
large enough blood vessel can cause death relatively quickly.
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my
brevity.
