This message was posted by smt by debbie on AmayaUsers.com. PLEASE DO NOT REPLY VIA EMAIL. Instead, respond to the thread on the WEBSITE by clicking here: http://www.amayausers.com/boards/ultimatebb.php?/topic/2/741.html#000004 I have used both a pocket clamp and the 12cm ring. If you already have the the pocket clamp, you don't have to remove the the hat bracket, if you doing the front of the hat. Otherwise the 12cm ring is the perfect size. =========================================================== The AmayaUsers Mailing List Website: http://www.amayausers.com Discussion Board: http://www.amayausers.com/boards Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://www.amayausers.com/list ===========================================================