[amayausers.com] Re: WHo owns the file & Getting files from competitors
- From: Steve Cohen <steve20832@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 20:11:01 -0500
Embroiderers not releasing files is nothing new. This was standard up until a
couple years ago. I'm on the same path with Aaron, if someone wants a file, I
will email it to them. Amazingly, about half of my customers come back after
they realize cheaper isn't always better.
> From: ImpressiveThreads@xxxxxxx> To: amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject:
> [amayausers.com] Re: WHo owns the file & Getting files from competitors>
> Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 17:54:46 -0700> > Aaron,> This is my philosophy on this
> subject. If a customer pays me to have> a their logo, artwork, whatever
> converted or digitized then I say they are> the owners of the design and if
> they want to take it to another embroidery> supplier then I send it to them
> in an email. They have paid me for this> already. If I do the digitizing then
> I know it will work well on my machine> and the fabric I applied it to. Does
> not mean the next person to use it will> be able to sew it out as well as I
> did. I know some embroidery shops charge> the customer again to release it. I
> don't think that is right, but it is my> opinion. > This is the first time I
> have heard that the digitizer owns the> file. If I contract out a digitizer
> to do the conversion, I am paying them> for work contracted by me on behalf
> of my customer. I pass this cost on to> my customer. Again, in my books, the
> customer has the right to the design. > > Just my 2 cents on this subject. >
> > > Cindy Chamberlin> Impressive Threads Custom Embroidery> Ofc:
> 623-879-9761> Cell: 602-710-0887> impressivethreads@xxxxxxx> -----Original
> Message-----> From: amayausers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> [mailto:amayausers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Linen Barn> Sent:
> Monday, October 06, 2008 2:52 PM> To: amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject:
> [amayausers.com] WHo owns the file & Getting files from competitors> > I have
> a competitor 15 miles from me and everytime I received a file from > him
> through a customer it didn't work and when I call him he never would > give
> me one that works so I always just re-digitize for anyone that had used> >
> him. I have an artist who used to sa> batoge the 1 job he did art for for me
> cause he wanted the screening work > and my customer just had him doing art
> so it would never come back how we > asked and the custmer paid over $1000
> for the art. Some people are like > that.> > As far as who own what I was
> always under the understanding if you send a > design to be digitized the
> digitizer owns the right to that and you just are> > able to use the logo for
> your customer even though its their logo the > digitized version is owned by
> the digitizer unless they realease ownership > of the design to you and then
> you own the right to the digitized file unless> > you sell and transfer the
> ownership to your customer. They still own the > right to thier original
> graphic or art just not the digitized format. It > can be confusing.> > As
> far as Im concerned if I charge my customer a setup and they for whatever> >
> reason want thier file I give it to them although that can create an unfair >
> advantage to my competition. Say the same customer has me doing work and >
> another embroiderer doing work. We can both have the file digitized by >
> different digitizer and the file will not be exactly the same. So if my >
> digitizer is better and I give that file to the customer and they take it >
> elswhere they have a design that I had done that is very nice and the >
> competition might not have the capability or experience to make this logo >
> look great on their own but by getting the file from me they are halfway >
> there as long as they use proper hooping, backing and colors they can look >
> as good as me because of my file. I think I have done enough damage on this>
> > subject for now :)> > > Aaron Sargent> The Linen Barn> linen@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> 541-770-2957> Medford, OR> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "K Nehmer"
> <nehmer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> Sent: Monday,
> October 06, 2008 1:43 PM> Subject: [amayausers.com] Re: erf file format> > >
> >I don't disagree, nor agree, with who owns the copyright on the digitized >
> >file--I really don't know. But it is still beyond me that one would "bobby>
> > >trap" a file. Yoj mention "rather than tick them off...", you don't think
> > >that finding out you sent a useful file did the same? I don't believe the
> > >Chamber person didn't find out--sure they couldn't see it--but they >
> >certainly found out when they had to pay for set up!> >> > Kathy> >> > -----
> Original Message ----- > > From: "Roland R. Irish III"
> <signman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> > To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> > Sent:
> Monday, October 06, 2008 3:31 PM> > Subject: [amayausers.com] Re: erf file
> format> >> >> >> If you take a logo to a Digitizer, and they create the file
> FOR you > >> based on that logo-> >> and you pay for it-YOU own the file now.
> The digitizer by selling it to > >> you has transferred the> >> file-because
> you have paid for his SERVICE to do that from YOUR (or your> > >> customer's)
> file.> >> Now, if the Digitizer (for example, Dakota) creates their OWN
> designs > >> and files, like the Dakota> >> book-they can sell you the RIGHT
> TO USE that file, but NOT the > >> 'ownership' of the actual file.> >>> >>
> WIth your own embroidery shop...a customer brings you in his logo to > >>
> have it put on a jacket.> >> YOU can either do the digitizing, or send it to
> a digitizing shop to > >> create a file for YOU to use-> >> NOT for the
> customer to use. This is a 'proprietary file' to make the > >> customer's job
> on YOUR machinery> >> (Amaya) not the customer's. So unless YOU 'sell' that
> FILE to the > >> customer-it is your property-because> >> you had to 'create
> it' in order to supply the product to the customer.> >> When I send goods out
> to an ad specialty supplier for imprinting- whether> > >> it be pad printed,
> screen> >> printed, or embroidered-THEY will charge me a 'setup' fee, or a >
> >> 'digitizing fee', or a screen charge.> >> BUT they will not give me or my
> client the screens, or the silicon pad, > >> or the digitizing disk they had
> to> >> make. It always remains their property. Same goes for you! Just
> because > >> I make up a logo to do> >> magnetic signs or a jacket for a
> client-doesn't mean he has the rights > >> to make ME supply him with> >> a
> printout or a file to take to someone else for printing cards or > >>
> whatever...if he wants that, I can CHARGE> >> him to do that-it's a different
> job!> >> No different than if he went to a Graphic Design Studio-ALL they do
> is > >> create logos and give the client> >> printouts, disk files, etc. in
> various formats to take anywhere he wants> > >> to get it done-and he pays
> the> >> Design Studio a good FEE to get that. It's how they make their money.
> So> > >> ANY type of graphic shop-> >> screenprinter, sign maker,
> embroiderer-should never feel guilty for > >> charging just to make up a
> design!> >>> >> As for 'booby trapping' a file...sometimes you just can't get
> a customer> > >> out the door with a 'no'...> >> or, like the local chamber
> of commerce did to me-after I did a job for > >> them-they 'assumed' that> >>
> THEY owned my files and wanted the logo AS I DID IT to order goods from > >>
> another place-that> >> I could have easily done for them. Rather than tick
> them off-I gave them> > >> 'their copy' by printing> >> out black and white,
> with a 50% halftone tint instead of solid black! So> > >> that when the other
> shop> >> went to use it-it would have turned to mud. Chamber person couldn't
> see > >> it, had no idea-they were> >> just happy that I gave them 'a file'
> to use!> >>> >> Roland> >>> >>> >> On Oct 6, 2008, at 4:00 PM, K Nehmer
> wrote:> >>> >>> First off, I have read that the emroidery file actually
> belongs to the > >>> digitizer--don't bite my head off, just saying that I
> have read that in> > >>> my places. But here's my real question--why in the
> world would you > >>> even bother with giving them a file that is
> useless--just tell them you> > >>> don't want to give them the file!> >>>>
> >>> Kathy> >>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From:
> <webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> >>> To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> >>> Sent:
> Monday, October 06, 2008 2:26 PM> >>> Subject: [amayausers.com] Re: erf file
> format> >>>> >>>> >>>> This message was posted by signman on AmayaUsers.com.
> PLEASE DO NOT > >>>> REPLY VIA EMAIL. Instead, respond to the thread on the
> WEBSITE by > >>>> clicking here:
> http://www.amayausers.com/boards/ultimatebb.php?/ > >>>>
> topic/1/534.html#000003> >>>>> >>>> Besides a corrupted file...there is also
> the chance that the > >>>> 'original' shop that did the embroidery
> bobbytrapped the file since > >>>> technically it doesn't belong to the
> customer-it belongs to the shop > >>>> that did the embroidery! Here's
> something to try...move that bad file > >>>> into a new folder. Copy it a
> couple times-and change the extension > >>>> .erf of each one to a file type
> you know you can open- .ofm, .eps, > >>>> .jpg, etc. Do this by clicking once
> on the file 'name' only and when > >>>> it highlights you can retype the
> name. It's worth a shot-it really > >>>> might be a file type you can open,
> but since the 'name' is booby > >>>> trapped your programs won't open it!
> PC's are funny that way I've > >>>> heard...long live Macs!> >>>> And there's
> the last thought...if it really isn't corrupted...I've > >>>> occasionally
> had a customer that demanded 'HIS' file off my > >>>> computer-to take to a
> competitor for a cheaper price. When they really> > >>>> can't get it through
> their head that they DO NOT own ANY of my > >>>> computer files-I have taken
> their file, opened it in a program I know > >>>> not too many have (Freehand)
> and then exported it as one or two of the> > >>>> many weird formats in the
> list...dxf, for example. SO, they 'do' get > >>>> their file-but not in any
> format the 'other' guy can use...so they > >>>> STILL have to pay to get it
> redigitized, vectorized, etc. Never had it> > >>>> happen with Amaya
> (embroidered goods) yet-only sign and screen print > >>>> jobs!> >>>> It's
> been through court many times...unless the customer pays for > >>>> DIGITAL
> COPIES of files YOU need to make in order to produce his work > >>>> (vector,
> bitmap files for graphics, files to run routers, etc.) then > >>>> they are
> NOT entitled to GET copies from you for free when they go to > >>>> another
> supplier...the court considers 'electronic files' that you > >>>> create to
> do a job as your 'proprietary' files and therefore you own > >>>> them-not
> the customer.> >>>>> >>>>
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