I have a competitor 15 miles from me and everytime I received a file from him through a customer it didn't work and when I call him he never would give me one that works so I always just re-digitize for anyone that had used him. I have an artist who used to sa batoge the 1 job he did art for for me cause he wanted the screening work and my customer just had him doing art so it would never come back how we asked and the custmer paid over $1000 for the art. Some people are like that.
As far as who own what I was always under the understanding if you send a design to be digitized the digitizer owns the right to that and you just are able to use the logo for your customer even though its their logo the digitized version is owned by the digitizer unless they realease ownership of the design to you and then you own the right to the digitized file unless you sell and transfer the ownership to your customer. They still own the right to thier original graphic or art just not the digitized format. It can be confusing.
As far as Im concerned if I charge my customer a setup and they for whatever reason want thier file I give it to them although that can create an unfair advantage to my competition. Say the same customer has me doing work and another embroiderer doing work. We can both have the file digitized by different digitizer and the file will not be exactly the same. So if my digitizer is better and I give that file to the customer and they take it elswhere they have a design that I had done that is very nice and the competition might not have the capability or experience to make this logo look great on their own but by getting the file from me they are halfway there as long as they use proper hooping, backing and colors they can look as good as me because of my file. I think I have done enough damage on this subject for now :)
Aaron Sargent The Linen Barn linen@xxxxxxxxxxx 541-770-2957 Medford, OR----- Original Message ----- From: "K Nehmer" <nehmer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 1:43 PM Subject: [amayausers.com] Re: erf file format
I don't disagree, nor agree, with who owns the copyright on the digitized file--I really don't know. But it is still beyond me that one would "bobby trap" a file. Yoj mention "rather than tick them off...", you don't think that finding out you sent a useful file did the same? I don't believe the Chamber person didn't find out--sure they couldn't see it--but they certainly found out when they had to pay for set up!Kathy----- Original Message ----- From: "Roland R. Irish III" <signman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 3:31 PM Subject: [amayausers.com] Re: erf file formatIf you take a logo to a Digitizer, and they create the file FOR you based on that logo- and you pay for it-YOU own the file now. The digitizer by selling it to you has transferred the file-because you have paid for his SERVICE to do that from YOUR (or your customer's) file. Now, if the Digitizer (for example, Dakota) creates their OWN designs and files, like the Dakota book-they can sell you the RIGHT TO USE that file, but NOT the 'ownership' of the actual file.WIth your own embroidery shop...a customer brings you in his logo to have it put on a jacket. YOU can either do the digitizing, or send it to a digitizing shop to create a file for YOU to use- NOT for the customer to use. This is a 'proprietary file' to make the customer's job on YOUR machinery (Amaya) not the customer's. So unless YOU 'sell' that FILE to the customer-it is your property-becauseyou had to 'create it' in order to supply the product to the customer.When I send goods out to an ad specialty supplier for imprinting- whether it be pad printed, screen printed, or embroidered-THEY will charge me a 'setup' fee, or a 'digitizing fee', or a screen charge. BUT they will not give me or my client the screens, or the silicon pad, or the digitizing disk they had to make. It always remains their property. Same goes for you! Just because I make up a logo to do magnetic signs or a jacket for a client-doesn't mean he has the rights to make ME supply him with a printout or a file to take to someone else for printing cards or whatever...if he wants that, I can CHARGEhim to do that-it's a different job!No different than if he went to a Graphic Design Studio-ALL they do is create logos and give the client printouts, disk files, etc. in various formats to take anywhere he wants to get it done-and he pays the Design Studio a good FEE to get that. It's how they make their money. So ANY type of graphic shop- screenprinter, sign maker, embroiderer-should never feel guilty for charging just to make up a design!As for 'booby trapping' a file...sometimes you just can't get a customer out the door with a 'no'... or, like the local chamber of commerce did to me-after I did a job for them-they 'assumed' that THEY owned my files and wanted the logo AS I DID IT to order goods from another place-that I could have easily done for them. Rather than tick them off-I gave them 'their copy' by printing out black and white, with a 50% halftone tint instead of solid black! So that when the other shop went to use it-it would have turned to mud. Chamber person couldn't see it, had no idea-they werejust happy that I gave them 'a file' to use! Roland On Oct 6, 2008, at 4:00 PM, K Nehmer wrote:First off, I have read that the emroidery file actually belongs to the digitizer--don't bite my head off, just saying that I have read that in my places. But here's my real question--why in the world would you even bother with giving them a file that is useless--just tell them you don't want to give them the file!Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: <webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 2:26 PM Subject: [amayausers.com] Re: erf file formatThis message was posted by signman on AmayaUsers.com. PLEASE DO NOT REPLY VIA EMAIL. Instead, respond to the thread on the WEBSITE by clicking here: http://www.amayausers.com/boards/ultimatebb.php?/ topic/1/534.html#000003Besides a corrupted file...there is also the chance that the 'original' shop that did the embroidery bobbytrapped the file since technically it doesn't belong to the customer-it belongs to the shop that did the embroidery! Here's something to try...move that bad file into a new folder. Copy it a couple times-and change the extension .erf of each one to a file type you know you can open- .ofm, .eps, .jpg, etc. Do this by clicking once on the file 'name' only and when it highlights you can retype the name. It's worth a shot-it really might be a file type you can open, but since the 'name' is booby trapped your programs won't open it! PC's are funny that way I've heard...long live Macs! And there's the last thought...if it really isn't corrupted...I've occasionally had a customer that demanded 'HIS' file off my computer-to take to a competitor for a cheaper price. When they really can't get it through their head that they DO NOT own ANY of my computer files-I have taken their file, opened it in a program I know not too many have (Freehand) and then exported it as one or two of the many weird formats in the list...dxf, for example. SO, they 'do' get their file-but not in any format the 'other' guy can use...so they STILL have to pay to get it redigitized, vectorized, etc. Never had it happen with Amaya (embroidered goods) yet-only sign and screen print jobs! It's been through court many times...unless the customer pays for DIGITAL COPIES of files YOU need to make in order to produce his work (vector, bitmap files for graphics, files to run routers, etc.) then they are NOT entitled to GET copies from you for free when they go to another supplier...the court considers 'electronic files' that you create to do a job as your 'proprietary' files and therefore you own them-not the customer.=========================================================== The AmayaUsers Mailing List Website: http://www.amayausers.com Discussion Board: http://www.amayausers.com/boards Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://www.amayausers.com/list ====================================================================================================================== The AmayaUsers Mailing List Website: http://www.amayausers.com Discussion Board: http://www.amayausers.com/boards Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://www.amayausers.com/list ====================================================================================================================== The AmayaUsers Mailing List Website: http://www.amayausers.com Discussion Board: http://www.amayausers.com/boards Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://www.amayausers.com/list ====================================================================================================================== The AmayaUsers Mailing List Website: http://www.amayausers.com Discussion Board: http://www.amayausers.com/boards Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://www.amayausers.com/list===========================================================
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