Well put! 80% of people with severe sight loss in my locality are over 60 and Guide might be the solution for some of them to prevent them being excluded now more local services have to be accessed online.
regards David Quarmby www.kvin.org.uk www.tail.org.uk quarmby@xxxxxxxxxxxx Tel 07736 087019----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Benson" <paul.benson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 7:19 AM Subject: [access-uk] message rules - Guide And The Barge-pole
Hello Mike, Vince and all,Disclaimer: I have no commercial interest in Guide, other than hoping it remains available for a long time, irrespective of what could be inferred from my email address.Pleas, Mike, the screen reader is singular, Guide, you twice gave it in the plural. Can you really offer a considered opinion on a product which you misspell?Please, Vince, I wonder if Guide actually wishes to be touched by your barge-pole? I am questioning your view because there are many on this list who will have only a vague idea of what Guide can do, and could easily be swayed by your view, and make recommendations of avoidance to others without further investigation of Guide.I am also slightly puzzled as to why a Guide user's enquiry has ended up on this list. There is a Guide support list designed for such queries. It is:guide.support@xxxxxxxxxxxxx .There is also Dolphin support, either by phone or email, willing to answer with greater accuracy than well-meaning good guesses given here.So, Guide is designed for complete beginners to computing. Imagine someone with no knowledge, receiving a PC/laptop with one of the advanced screen-readers installed. They have to cope with comprehending the not-so-intuitive Windows system, not realising what options are available, never mind how to get the screen reader to acrobatically perform the tasks of which they have little knowledge. Guide is effectively the equivalent of having a knowledgeable friend at one's shoulder, pointing out what the options are, and then how to perform the task. Memory is not totally essential, the menu-prompts will always be there. Perhaps your learning curve for a new task is immediate, once shown something you can do it again, even if there is a 2 week gap. If so, lucky you. Some people will feel they understand how to perform a task, but forget what they did within 30 minutes of being shown, effectively leaving them feeling inadequate and not wishing to seek help again. Result: They do not achieve what they could.Yes, Guide comes with limitations. If what you wish to do has not been programmed into the menus, then it can not be done. If any Guide user begins to feel frustrated at Windows options not being available, then this is the signal to investigate another more sophisticated screen reader, which can access more of Windows. Oh, and while they go through the considerable learning curve, of an unprompted Windows system, they still have Guide to perform the everyday needs.I am somewhat perplexed with this strange concept of diverting emails immediately into specified folders. This looks like one of those bells and whistles inventions, which makes life a little more complex.Last evening I received 114 emails. I have 73 email folders. If message rules had diverted them all over the place, I would surely have had to investigate all folders designed to receive diverted emails, just to be sure I have not missed something. Quite a lot of unnecessary key-pressing, from my viewpoint.Instead, I used Control/f to find emails in the in-box specific to groups like this one, 11 were found for access-uk. They were read in order of receipt, and since none contained material I wished to archive, they were deleted. The Control/f method found 54 emails from a usually quieter list. If diversion had occurred, I could have left that folder unvisited for a while, and missed out on immediate interaction, had I wished so to do. Yes, your in-box with Guide can fill up, but I feel reading each email as it arrives and deciding what to do with it is more sensible than having a proportion of the 114 emails dispersed, potentially resulting in delays. Ah, and does this explain why some people continue with moderator-banned topics? They visit diverted emails folders, and work from the oldest upwards, and find themselves7 answering closed threads, and suffer the wrath of the moderator. Coloured long canes, for example?Lastly, has anyone noticed the number of people across various lists, enquiring how to perform tasks after upgrading their email client, because the software writers chose to show off that they can keep changing the method to perform precisely the same tasks? Ah, but to get one to upgrade they must make it considerably different, or one might feel nothing has been improved, and the upgrade was not worth the money. As a result of re-writing the software, user frustration often sets in as the new and supposedly improved method must be learned. Ribbons, for example. Cynical but true, to my perception. Well, changes, such as the ribbons, are transparent to a Guide user. Also, the Guide email client is especially written for Guide, so no external commercial interest dictating change must occur to sell the upgrade. Consequently, a Guide user has consistency, which is important for people who struggle with ever-evolving technology.So, is Guide a magnificent paragon of screen reader virtue? No screen reader copes with everything thrown at it, as this list demonstrates. There are matters which could be better in Guide, but for someone with no computing knowledge, Guide is an excellent first choice. Please everybody, do not automatically push others into complex solutions with which you can cope, by criticizing an ideal first computing experience, which for many turns out to be a stepping-stone to the more popular screen readers.Paul Benson. -----Original Message----- From: Vince Thacker - Email Address: vince@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent On: 13/11/2012 23:20 Sent To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Email Address: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: message rules Michael,That quote from Derek was about Guide, as you've surmised. I wouldn't touchit with a barge-pole, but some people seem to find it enough for what theyneed. Then you get those frustrations such as not being able to make messagerules! Vince.----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Ray" <mike.ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxTo: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:48 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: message rules Derek It depends on the email program in use and I guess the permissions of the user.Until recently Windows had a very poor grasp of permissions, but Vista and7 have tightened that up a bit. On both of the email clients I have used on this machine, Outlook Express and Thunderbird, it is possible to make new folders and rules for which folders messages should go into. Alfie...this is nothing to do with the screen-reader in use. The screen-reader just reads what's on the screen. If you're using DolphinGuides Derek, disregard what I have just said because I know nothing aboutGuides and don't think anyone should be encouraged to use it. Mike----- Original Message ----- From: "Alfred King" <alfredking10@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxTo: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:34 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: message rules I think this is a basic screen reader Derek and would not do advanced organisation such as that.----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Hornby" <derek.hornby_uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxTo: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:31 PM Subject: [access-uk] message rules Hi All Someone has just told me and I QUOTE: "the software I have on my p.c is a basic one which is set out for peoplewho have not used one before so it only has basics for e .mails ,like anin box ,sent messages ,deleted messages and it is set out in a menu format where we only have to press a number for which file we want .we can make folders but we can only move folders into them from one of these other folders we cannot make folders for incoming ones to go into ,we have to do that one at a time once they have come into the one inbox we have" # The query is, could new folders be created, and could Message rules be set. The user doesn't think so. 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