Yes but one size doesn't fit all does it particularly if your
individual accessibility requirements are not catered for and
need to be.
Kind regards,
Paul
Twitter: @paulleake1
paul.leake@xxxxxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: "Angel" <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> (Redacted sender
"angel238" for DMARC)
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date sent: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 02:10:50 -0500
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the
Ombudsman
No one complained this much when telephones had rotary dials.
With word
prefixes. Which had to be translated to letters. Which then had
to be
interpreted. A BC for two, D E F for three ETC. How did people
who weren't
able to understand, for example, the "Kenmore", and I am just
using this as
an example as I don't know exchange names over there, should be
translated
as the numbers 5 3. dial telephones? We just learned. It seems
difficult
for me to believe, that with all the choices we blind consumers
have to read
bank statements we still aren't satisfied; and we just can't use
those
plethora of choices. When sighted people are unhappy with
services offered
them, they just move to another service provider. Or they
purchase another
product, and write poor reviews on the internet about the
business. With
which they are unhappy. Given no other alternative, they create
"a better
mouse trap".
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Stone" <alex.stone@xxxxxxxxx
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2015 5:12 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the
Ombudsman
Martin, i'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but why should
someone
with diabetic retinopathy not use chip and pin?
On 27/11/2015 22:06, Martin Wilsher (Redacted sender
martinwilsher for
DMARC) wrote:
Diabetic neuropathy anyone? That's a reason for not using chip
and pin,
and
blindness often accompanies that,.
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf
Of
CJ &AA MAY
Sent: 27 November 2015 21:20
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the
Ombudsman
I see your point, although I'd argue with your examples. A ramp
doesn't
just
make it easier for a person with a walking stick, it provides
real
accessability to someone in a wheelchair.
Chip and Pin for elderly people who cannot remember pin numbers
or see to
check what it is, would be really stuck if they couldn't sign.
But a commercial company needs to provide accessability in the
most
cost-effective way possible and so makes adjustments which meet
the needs
of
the mnajority of people. It can't hope to meet the precise
needs of every
individual.
Alison
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf
Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 27 November 2015 21:15
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the
Ombudsman
Hi Alison
yes the bank does offer a choice grade 1 or grade 2 Braille.
yes I find reading a document with Braille one side of page
easier. And
I
did explain few weeks ago why.
So when we talk about access to information, should we not
consider
what's accessible full stop.
Or, what's easily accessible.
One might argue there is no need for ramps, simply because a
person
with
walking problems can walk up few steps.
But the ramp way is, easier!
And what about chip and signature.
Surely a person with sight problems can use a key pad!
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf
Of
CJ &AA MAY
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2015 8:49 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the
Ombudsman
Oh Derek! No! Not Grade 1! All those extra pages, not to mention
the
slowness of reading.
I'd suggest that anyone whose braille is limited to Grade 1
would be very
unlikely to have the skills to read a braille statement.
This is all getting a bit silly, isn't it? I appreciate your
preference
for
single sided braille and your reasons for this but are you sayig
you
really
cannot manage double-sided braille? Or are you saying that you
find
single-sided braille easier to handle and that this is your
preference?
How are you going to feel when they start to follow the Braille
Authority's
guidelines and start producing your statements in UEB?
Alison
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf
Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 27 November 2015 20:31
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the
Ombudsman
Hi Steve
They would not need four flags.
By default it could be produce grade 1 Braille and Braille
on both
sides
of page.
Then if a customer needs it different flag for grade 2 Braille
and a
flag
for one sid of page Braille.
I expect chip and PIN cards are offered by default.
So you only get a chip and signature card if you ask!
so same sort of thinking for Braille statements.
Grade 2 if you ask, Braille on both sides of paper if you ask.
grade 1 and Braille on both sides if you don't ask for
different.
Easy!
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf
Of
Steve Nutt
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2015 4:39 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the
Ombudsman
Hi Clive,
But can you imagine asking for single and double side as well.
That'd be
four flags, just for Braille.
All the best
Steve
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf
Of
Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 27 November 2015 15:33
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the
Ombudsman
Hi Steve,
Interestingly Natwest hold a flag on customers' records, saying
wwhat
type
of braille you want - graded or ungraded (by which they actually
mean
Standard English Braille grade 2(graded) or grade 1(ungraded).
Honestly! Who
told them to use those terms? (smile)
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf
Of
Steve Nutt
Sent: 27 November 2015 15:17
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the
Ombudsman
Hi Derek,
While it is not difficult for me to do, it depends on the
transcriber,
the
software they use, etc. Also, it would mean another flag that
the bank
would have to hold on your records.
All the best
Steve
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf
Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 27 November 2015 14:49
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the
Ombudsman
But Steve, I thought you agreed that what I was asking for
isn't
difficult
to do.
Remember the bank has said if they could do it they would
happily do
it.
So they still have-not said why cannot do it.
and the quote you have seen in another message, was from RNIB
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf
Of
Steve Nutt
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2015 2:10 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the
Ombudsman
Hi,
I happen to agree with that finding.
All the best
Steve
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf
Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 27 November 2015 10:20
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] braille statements RNIB sides with the
Ombudsman
Hi All
Regarding Braille bank statements.
here is more comment from the ombudsman.
Notice that RNIB supports the bank?
Also the bank has still failed to give a reason, as to why
they cannot
do
Braille on both saides of paper.
Few weeks ago they were saying if they could, they would
happily do it!
Now quote from bank, to the ombudsman.
"As previously discussed to you on the telephone we do not offer
any
customer bank statements single sided. All statements that we
produce
included Braille are sent double sided and this is the way that
statement
production system works.
"We have discussed this matter with the Royal Institute of Blind
People
and
they have provided the below to our Diversity Manager Dear Neil,
further
to
your telcon with Steve Tyler this morning, please find below
quote from
Steve in this respect.
Reference: Complaint by Derek Hornby re Duplex Braille
Statements
It is RNIB's view that the business decision taken by HSBC
regarding the
production of bank statements in Duplex form (Braille on both
sides
of the paper) is a perfectly accessible means of delivering
this
information to regular Braille reading clients. Although Mr
Hornby may
have preferences around his ideal form of statements, as with
all
business decisions, individual preferences and especially
highly
specific ones cannot be delivered upon when handling mass
produced or
template products. We believe that although he may have
a preference, double sided Braille is a standard and uniform
means
by which Braille is produced and has no bearing on the actual
accessibility of the product other than a stated preference.
Customers continually express preferences and were there to be
an
overwhelming response, then clearly we would need to review
processes
and
would recommend that to HSBC.
As it stands, given the ubiquitous nature of Braille produced in
this
standard fashion, as well as the environmental impact of reduced
usage
of
paper and consequent bulk of Braille, we believe this to be a
perfectly
sound business decision by the bank.
regards
Helena Suprun
PA to Head of Solutions, Strategy and Planning (Steve Tyler)
Royal
National
Institute of Blind People (RNIB)
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
