[access-uk] Re: Affordable Accessibility, was Re: Fw: [vicsireland] Digit-Eyes Audio Labeling System Advances Independence For Visually Impaired

  • From: "Dave Taylor" <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 12:02:06 +0100

What you ask is simple. Most jobs these days require you to have a support
worker, so effectively making them employ a whole extra person. This is for
several reasons. Firstly, most office equipment is increasingly inaccessible
and accessibility of equipment is nowhere within the DDA. Therefore, even if
they wanted to, they could not get accessible office equipment. Secondly,
many offices are increasingly difficult to navigate and therefore there
would be substantial redesign costs for quite a number of cases for blind
people to be able to navigate them. Finding your own desk might be easy but
finding a colleague often isn't and whatever you say about accessibility,
people don't take kindly to going out of their way these days.

Thirdly, as more companies are using complex phone systems that are less
accessible and more and more in-house software, accessibility and usability
is more and more a problem. Frankly, screen readers slow many systems down
too much for software to be effective even if accessible.

Fourthly, the current legislative system would make it that the disabled
person would effectively have to prove they are the best person for the job.
Frankly, given the trends in most offices, it would be almost impossible to
prove this to a tribunal, so employers would easily be able to argue that
blind people are less competitive in the work place.  The problem here is
that though we understand that we can do far more and far more quickly in
many instances than sighted people, it is those sighted people who would be
judging our cases, and would almost certainly not be able to understand how
we do things and how effective we can be!

It would be interesting to know, of the 7000 or so working blind people,
what types of company or organisation they tend to work for. My feeling is
that self employment would be very highly represented, local government and
civil service would be highly represented, specialist VI sector work would
be highly represented and large companies would generally come out very
badly already. 

Cheers
Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Colin Fowler
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 10:51 AM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Affordable Accessibility, was Re: Fw: [vicsireland]
Digit-Eyes Audio Labeling System Advances Independence For Visually Impaired

Um? business's already do that in the commercial world. Similarly they 
employ people on less than there counterparts, that is what is meant by 
competitiveness. The top 500 listed companies within the UK could easily 
accommodate the paying of a larger contributionand it may actually encourage

people within that organisation to insist that suppliers incorporate more 
accessibility into the products they purchase .

Remember, the Disability discrimination act puts the onus on those employers

to make reasonable adjustments, and justification for not being able to 
afford paying the costs associated with reasonable adjustments in the 
recruitment and appointment of disabled people by such employers really 
doesn't equate Dave.

You sight me an example where we have another statutory obligation of 
compliance in legislation, where the government runs a scheme to fund that 
compliance? It is a nonsense and it needs a major overhaul, the removal of 
the top 500 listed companies and all public sector tax payer or council tax 
funded authorities from the current Access to work scheme is an essential 
first step to eliminating some of the unnecessary drain on the public purse.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Taylor" <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 6:22 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Affordable Accessibility, was Re: Fw: [vicsireland]

Digit-Eyes Audio Labeling System Advances Independence For Visually Impaired


> How could it be seen as reasonable to pay twice as much to employ one 
> person
> as another? That's what your approach would mean!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf 
> Of
> Colin Fowler
> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 12:48 PM
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Affordable Accessibility, was Re: Fw: 
> [vicsireland]
> Digit-Eyes Audio Labeling System Advances Independence For Visually 
> Impaired
>
> Well possibly, not wholly sure how those negotiations would work.
>
> I do think however that some of our top 100 corporations shouldn't be
> receiving as much assistance from Access to Work as they are currently
> getting, and that the employers contribution for such companies should be
> increased to 75%. Like wise, where central government departments aren't
> getting ATW funding at the moment, I do believe that tax payer funded
> organisations like the BBC should also lose the ATW funding. I don't agree
> with the argument that says that the employment of disabled people will be
> affected by that, we have legislation in place that needs to come to bear 
> if
>
> that was indeed the case. It just seems so absurd that public funded
> organisations should get further tax payers money to do what they are
> already being funded to do.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Barry Hill" <bbinc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 12:36 PM
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Affordable Accessibility, was Re: Fw: 
> [vicsireland]
>
> Digit-Eyes Audio Labeling System Advances Independence For Visually 
> Impaired
>
>
>> Now, if it was a centralised private company, they could bulk buy
>> licences,
>> like the BBC do, but practically demand a lower price or wait and get
>> dribs
>> and drabs.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Colin Fowler" <col.fowler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 12:24 PM
>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Affordable Accessibility, was Re: Fw:
>> [vicsireland]
>> Digit-Eyes Audio Labeling System Advances Independence For Visually
>> Impaired
>>
>>
>> No, but by out sourceing the whole scheme, a centralised purchasing
>> department would be able to negotiate reduced prices from suppliers,
>> negotiate preferential settlement terms and generally improve on the 
>> whole
>> system in turn costing the DWP 25% less than they are currently having to
>> find to meet the funding, and pay salaries.
>>
>> The private sector just does business better and more competitively than
>> the
>> public sector. I could envisage a reduction in the salary bill for a
>> start,
>> vast savings in pension contributions and a far more effective and
>> efficient
>> process all round.
>>
>> 4 years ago I floated this past the then head of the ATW at the DWP and
>> they
>> were reluctant; for obvious reasons, to go as far as out sourcing. But 
>> the
>> playing field has now changed, and I think that that given a properly
>> costed
>> proposition, that people now in place at the DWP would look again at this
>> suggestion.
>>
>> They have to save 25% off the topline and schemes and suggestions that
>> make
>> that saving have to be considered.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Barry Hill" <bbinc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 12:04 PM
>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Affordable Accessibility, was Re: Fw:
>> [vicsireland]
>> Digit-Eyes Audio Labeling System Advances Independence For Visually
>> Impaired
>>
>>
>>> How would ATW start?  They can't just refuse to pay for the equipment, 
>>> so
>>> they have no bargaining tool.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Barry
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Colin Fowler" <col.fowler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 11:23 AM
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Affordable Accessibility, was Re: Fw:
>>> [vicsireland]
>>> Digit-Eyes Audio Labeling System Advances Independence For Visually
>>> Impaired
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think that the manufacturers and suppliers of JAWS are the only
>>> people to blame here. I am sure that across our sector and definitely 
>>> the
>>> disabled community at a whole, there is a tremendous profit being made 
>>> by
>>> manufacturers and suppliers alike selling products that are priced
>>> artificially high. You could say that that is the key to marketing
>>> success,
>>> getting a higher price for a product because people will pay the higher
>>> price for it. But if in the UK alone ATW were'n't able to support the
>>> funding for equipment at it's current level of pricing and a more
>>> aggressive
>>> pricing structure was implementd, not only would you and I as tax payers
>>> see
>>> those 25% savings to government departments being achieved, but also the
>>> costs to people outside of the Access to Work funding would also have to
>>> fall.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Barry Hill" <bbinc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 11:14 AM
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Affordable Accessibility, was Re: Fw:
>>> [vicsireland]
>>> Digit-Eyes Audio Labeling System Advances Independence For Visually
>>> Impaired
>>>
>>>
>>>> Like supermarkets.  Sell it at a small profit, but sell more than 
>>>> anyone
>>>> else.  If Jaws are working on a ridiculous profit margin, they need to
>>>> drop
>>>> it down to 27%, making it more tempting and affordable for the average
>>>> Joe
>>>> to buy, and they'd sell more.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Barry
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Mike Moore" <mikeis@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 10:48 AM
>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Affordable Accessibility, was Re: Fw:
>>>> [vicsireland]
>>>> Digit-Eyes Audio Labeling System Advances Independence For Visually
>>>> Impaired
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I think it is the offset of someone buying a netbook for
>>>> example to get started with computers, needing access to
>>>> software such as MS Office Word for college then not really
>>>> wanting to spend twice the price of the netbook on a screen
>>>> reading package.
>>>>
>>>> If price came down, surely the sales would increase? There
>>>> are supposed to be near 180, 00, 00 visually impaired
>>>> individuals worldwide. How many cannot afford the price of
>>>> access?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Barry Hill" <bbinc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 10:40 AM
>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Fw: [vicsireland] Digit-Eyes Audio
>>>> Labeling System Advances Independence For Visually Impaired
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>
>>>>> Although I like what Apple are doing regarding making
>>>>> access equipment at an
>>>>> affordable price, I fear that these Apple apps will have a
>>>>> detrimental
>>>>> effect on the selection of access equipment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Makers of this sort of equipment say that they have to
>>>>> charge such high
>>>>> prices because their products do not sell enough of each
>>>>> item to make a
>>>>> profit for research and developing the product, although I
>>>>> can't see this
>>>>> argument being true with Jaws.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, because Apple make the product cheap, if what the
>>>>> others say is true,
>>>>> everyone else could just stop R&D and/or stop making the
>>>>> product.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suppose they'll have to diversify or die.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>
>>>>> Barry
>>>>> ----- 
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>
>>>>> Barry
>>>>>
>>>>> Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Mike Moore" <mikeis@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 10:27 AM
>>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Fw: [vicsireland] Digit-Eyes
>>>>> Audio Labeling System
>>>>> Advances Independence For Visually Impaired
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for this article; it seems that this is the way to
>>>>> go....
>>>>>
>>>>> I know there is a large expense with the iPhone itself,
>>>>> but
>>>>> at least the apps are more "accessible" in respect to
>>>>> costing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Would it not make more sense if the price of software was
>>>>> lowered, increasing the sales on a global market and would
>>>>> also remove the piracy threats a lot of the manufacturer's
>>>>> fear?
>>>>>
>>>>> This option opens the way for us to purchase the equipment
>>>>> we want (not what we have to buy, as the budget cannot
>>>>> strech to it and the price of the accessibility software
>>>>> as
>>>>> well).
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Jackie Cairns" <jackie.cairnsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 10:19 AM
>>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Fw: [vicsireland] Digit-Eyes
>>>>> Audio
>>>>> Labeling System Advances Independence For Visually
>>>>> Impaired
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Tony
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for forwarding this information to the list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If it does what the blurb suggests, and with the
>>>>>> increasing
>>>>>> popularity/demand for the Iphone, it looks as though we
>>>>>> can at last begin to
>>>>>> bypass some of the more expensive kit that only serves
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> or two purposes
>>>>>> in favour of having a lot of useful applications in the
>>>>>> one device.  The
>>>>>> more I read and hear about the Iphone, the more I am
>>>>>> warming to having the
>>>>>> usefulness of all the applications over the complexities
>>>>>> of a touch screen
>>>>>> device.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kind Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jackie Cairns
>>>>>> J&M Work-Ability
>>>>>>
>>>>>> jandm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> www.work-ability.co.uk
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
>>>>>> tony sweeney
>>>>>> Sent: 24 June 2010 00:46
>>>>>> To: access-uk
>>>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Fw: [vicsireland] Digit-Eyes Audio
>>>>>> Labeling System
>>>>>> Advances Independence For Visually Impaired
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Folk,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Haven't got my head around this as yet as I haven't got
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> iPhone but it
>>>>>> sounds good indeed!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your thoughts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See below.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Forwarded from the VicsIreland list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Joan Ann Brosnan
>>>>>> To: vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 12:30 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [vicsireland] Digit-Eyes Audio Labeling System
>>>>>> Advances
>>>>>> Independence For Visually Impaired
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This looks like it could be an interesting application
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> IPhone users.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Digit-Eyes Audio Labeling System Advances Independence
>>>>>> For
>>>>>> Visually Impaired
>>>>>> 23 June, 2010 @ 4:17 pm by Cara
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Contact person: Davey Hulse
>>>>>> Cell: 503-559-3787 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting
>>>>>> 503-559-3787
>>>>>>
>>>>>> end_of_the_skype_highlighting
>>>>>> Email: PressRelations@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DIGIT-EYES AUDIO LABELING SYSTEM ADVANCES INDEPENDENCE
>>>>>> FOR
>>>>>> VISUALLY IMPAIRED
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Digital Miracles, LLC, is pleased to announce a major
>>>>>> advancement in
>>>>>> assistive technology for people who are blind and
>>>>>> visually
>>>>>> impaired. The
>>>>>> Digit-Eyes Audio Labeling System has been approved for
>>>>>> sale on the Apple
>>>>>> Apps Store. As of June 23rd, the millions of people
>>>>>> worldwide with
>>>>>> substantial vision loss can begin downloading the iPhone
>>>>>> application to
>>>>>> recognize and label the important items in their lives.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Reasonably priced at $29.99, the Digit-Eyes phone app is
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> powerful tool
>>>>>> that fits into any budget and life- style, turning
>>>>>> challenging tasks into
>>>>>> easy, safe activities. The Digit-Eyes system gives users
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> simple way to
>>>>>> make custom labels for everyday items and it identifies
>>>>>> packaged
>>>>>> goods-joining advanced software with the iPhone, the
>>>>>> Internet, home
>>>>>> computers, printers, and inexpensive off-the-shelf
>>>>>> labels.
>>>>>> People of almost
>>>>>> any visual ability can now put groceries away and grab
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> right
>>>>>> prescription bottle independently.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "This is the most exciting product I've worked on," says
>>>>>> Nancy Miracle,
>>>>>> president of Digital Miracles and software engineer with
>>>>>> 40 years
>>>>>> experience. "The limited functions and high cost of
>>>>>> existing assistive
>>>>>> devices just seemed wrong, so our objective was to
>>>>>> develop
>>>>>> a product that
>>>>>> performed better than any comparable technology and offer
>>>>>> it at about 10% of
>>>>>> the price. Combining the need for identification with a
>>>>>> natural, powerful
>>>>>> and robust tool like the iPhone made the project
>>>>>> irresistible."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With Digit-Eyes, users can print custom text labels or
>>>>>> record audio labels
>>>>>> that they make by scanning specially coded labels and
>>>>>> speaking into their
>>>>>> phones. They attach the labels to household items, and
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> messages are
>>>>>> played back whenever the codes are rescanned with their
>>>>>> iPhones. This
>>>>>> Digit-Eyes app can also scan manufacturer codes (UPC,
>>>>>> EAN,
>>>>>> ISBN) and say
>>>>>> what's inside the package after checking the vast
>>>>>> Digit-Eyes product
>>>>>> database. Each iPhone stores over five hundred hours of
>>>>>> information and can
>>>>>> be used just about anywhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "This product is amazing! By labeling leftovers with
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> contents and date
>>>>>> refrigerated, I can determine if my dinner will be edible
>>>>>> or not. Next, I'll
>>>>>> be labeling my jungle of AC adapters so I'll never again
>>>>>> have to guess what
>>>>>> they all go to. The ease of use and flexibility of the
>>>>>> process make it an
>>>>>> invaluable tool!"
>>>>>> Randy Builder, Seattle, Washington.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The first public display of Digit-Eyes is at the National
>>>>>> Federation of the
>>>>>> Blind convention in Dallas, Texas, July 4 - 7, booth
>>>>>> B113.
>>>>>> The exhibit then
>>>>>> moves to the American Council of the Blind convention
>>>>>> July
>>>>>> 10 - 15 in
>>>>>> Phoenix, Arizona, booth #41. Attendees can experience the
>>>>>> use and capability
>>>>>> of the system with hands-on demonstrations. Details,
>>>>>> explanations, and
>>>>>> examples will be available at both conventions, or
>>>>>> immediately on-line at
>>>>>> www.DIGIT-EYES.com.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Digital Miracles, LLC, the parent company of Digit-Eyes,
>>>>>> is a Texas-based
>>>>>> corporation that develops customized software solutions.
>>>>>> The Digit-Eyes
>>>>>> Audio Labeling System was created by a team of engineers,
>>>>>> software designers
>>>>>> and members of the visually impaired community.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Product Reviewers can get a review copy at:
>>>>>> reviewcopy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> or by calling: (817) 571-3083
>>>>>> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting
>>>>>> (817) 571-3083      end_of_the_skype_highlighting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joan Ann.
>>>>>>
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> ** immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> ** or send a message, to
> ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
> 

** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq

** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq

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