[webproducers] Re: Rates/Salary/Compensation
- From: Grace Yeh <elegraphy@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: Sergei Kachenkov <sergei@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:17:49 -0500
Hi Sergei,
Thanks for putting a lot of thoughts on my case. Your email certainly
points out a lot of ways to deal with clients in general. I learned a
lot from this. Yesterday I have asked my professor and she gave me
some advices too.
I already composed an email to ask him for money. (I used some words
you wrote me in the email, hope it's ok!) This time he won't get
anything free from me.
Thanks again for your help. Please find my letter to him at the end
of this email.
Thank you,
Grace
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
XXX,
Where is the money you promised me over and over again? Since October
9th 2006 you posted this project at xxxxxx.edu and looked for a
freelancer, you only paid me $60 for a one month long design project!
That is not enough to cover the time and service I have spent on
creating graphics and a logo for your site. Now the problem here is
not about whether my files are layered. The problem is you didn't pay
me anything before you can rightfully use my work. I own the
copyright for all my creative works, you don't! You cannot modify my
images. You can pay me for usage, but you don't own my works. You
should not using them for more than two month without paying me
anything. You should immediately withdraw all my works from your
circulations. It is a federal offense for copyright infringement.
Ask yourself honestly: have Grace not gave me time for postpone her
payments? Not only you reluctant to pay me anything after Nov. 5th
2006, you even acted like I owe you my works! From now on I don't
want anything to do with you or your organizations, but only deal for
my payments. I urge you to pay me immediately before the due date,
with full payments stated in my invoice, or take out all my works
from your site immediately.
As for your file request; after I have received your full payments on
time, you can request my files for a price. You need to pay $10 per
MB depends on the file size, plus a $100 each time for sending. If
you cannot make my payments on time, or just paid a portion on due
date; after Feb 15th 2007, you can only obtain my files after you
cleared my invoice. No exceptions. Then you need to pay $20 for each
MB depends on file size, plus a $100 for each sending. No
negotiations on my charges.
I only accept your payments from money order or PayPal. Absolutely no
check is acceptable. Clear?
Grace
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
On Jan 23, 2007, at 1:24 PM, Sergei Kachenkov wrote:
> Hi Grace,
> for some reason my email get bounced from
> webproducers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, so I'm writing you directly.
>
> I'm a web developer myself.
>
> You probably have some email correspondence with this client. Is
> there any mention of payment, your agreement? From both sides, you
> & them. If you have anything, this could serve as contractual
> agreement (even if there is no formal signed contract in place).
>
> I been following this posting and is not clear what activities (or
> action) you performed yourself besides sending them an invoices?
> Did you call, did you ask directly (very directly) about payment
> been late? Did you visit them on location and asked face to face
> "can you pay me now" sort of thing?
>
>
> Don't worry about "if going to court will leave any backfire for my
> future career" - no, it won't. It's different issues. Career path
> is one thing, but payment's issues are B2B transactions. This is
> business, at least you should treat this way and it has nothing (or
> very little) to do with your career path. You were acting as a
> freelancer, which is a business entity itself.
>
> I can offer you my personal assistance on this matter by making a
> call to corresponding party and ask them about this payment.
> Sometime it's easier to find right answers by letting the 3rd party
> involve formally or informally, doesn't matter. Fact of involvement
> of 3rd will put them on defensive position and sometime it just
> work. Or at least will clarify where they stand on it.
>
> Do not underestimate POWER of negotiations!!! That is very powerful
> instrument - always!!! Learn how to use it. Often you can
> accomplish more vs. go to the court (court costs money and time and
> you still may loose).
>
> You have to know you opponent's position (from your description
> there is almost none). If they are total crooks, likely you lost.
> If they have some (whatever) views on the issues of payment, you
> have to know this .. what is it? Why they are not paying? This is
> not clear from your story.
>
> There are ways to apply pressure.
> You may say (write actually - with signature confirmation slip) ...
> "you are not permitted to use this and this graphics, or logo (or
> whatever) because this is my default copyrighted material. You
> didn't obtain written permission from the author. Usage of this
> material without author's permission is a copyright infringement
> and is a federal offence. You must withdraw this-and-this graphics
> from circulation immediately." .. sort of things! It's just one
> example I made up to apply some pressure on them.
>
>
> Best regards and let me know if I can help you in practical matter
> (we can try at least!) ...
>
>
> Sergei Kachenkov
> IT Consulting
> www.fligel.com
> www.mindpit.com
> 718-336-4573
>
>
>
> ********
> Hi Phillip, Hi Stuart, Hi James, and everyone,
>>
>> Thank you for some good thoughts on this. I contact this client
>> directly when they posted through my school. You're right, it was my
>> mistake for not sign-up a contract with them in the first place; I
>> certainly learnt this lesson in a very hard way! However, I already
>> send them PSD files for three times since November, but they kept
>> complain that they couldn't open my files with layers. After I read
>> Stuart's email, I believe that maybe the case here...(Backward
>> compatible issue).
>>
>> These days I can't decide if I should bring my case to legal justice.
>> Maybe this is silly, but I consider since I just beginning in this
>> field, if going to court will leave any backfire for my future
>> career. But on the other hand, this organization's goal is to make
>> some citywide street parade and raise public awareness on certain
>> banned activity, and they'll make huge attention with news media this
>> spring. (Sorry I cannot be more specific who they are). So even
>> though they act as none-profit organization, but all the logo and
>> graphics I made will be use to advertise their organization and their
>> events.
>>
>> James has great suggestions in his email (Thank you James!). I
>> certainly will bring this case to GAG and my counselor and see if
>> they can help me. I'll keep you update.
>>
>> Many Thanks for Your Thoughts and Helps.
>> Grace
>>
>> On Jan 22, 2007, at 12:38 PM, Phillip Madanire wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Grace
>>> If the company were going to be successful like Nike I will
>>> definitely go to court. Regardless you have to weigh how much you
>>> will get from it. One way is to say I have learnt a lesson let me
>>> move on. I do not do that though.
>>>
>>> I would not give them the PSDs files unless they pay me the whole
>>> amount first and make sure the check is cleared. You have to act
>>> professional(in other words act tough because it is business - no
>>> one
>>> works for free) and they will not get away with it.
>>>
>>> Do not feel insulted because it is you who did not do it
>>> professionally(contract thing). Recognize the mistake and embrace
>>> what you have learnt. You will come across it very frequently if you
>>> do not do contracts.
>>>
>>> Phillip
>>>
>>> On Jan 22, 2007, at 11:13 AM, Grace Yeh wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Phillip and everyone,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, I have no contract with them,
>>>> as I regret it now that I should. I got this job through my
>>>> school's
>>>> job listing, and it posted as a freelance project for a new formed
>>>> none-profit organization, not an unpaid internship.
>>>>
>>>> Now the project is already done for two month, but they also use my
>>>> graphic/logo design for the last two month without paying me (as
>>>> they
>>>> promise once they fund raised some money they'll pay me), but since
>>>> November they keep bothering me about sending them the original PSD
>>>> files, as one of their designers claimed that I have sent them the
>>>> "flatten" ones, but in fact all the PSD files I sent are multi-
>>>> layered, huge 40-60 MB originals. I suspect the only reason they
>>>> encounter this problem is because they don't know how to use PSD
>>>> files when layers are grouped inside folders in the layer palette.
>>>> Now after I have sent them same files three times, plus one long
>>>> email explained 'how to' use Photoshop layers, they still nag me
>>>> about sending them PSDs with 'unlocked' layers, and still not
>>>> mention
>>>> about paying me. I just give them an invoice three days ago, and
>>>> now
>>>> I have feelings that they just going to ignore it.
>>>>
>>>> I really feel this is a total insult and rip-off to someone who
>>>> just
>>>> start in the professional field. Is there still anything I can
>>>> do to
>>>> protect myself? Do I really have to bring them to court?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your help.
>>>> Grace
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 21, 2007, at 1:15 PM, Phillip Madanire wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Did you have a thorough contract? If so you can take them to
>>>>> court.
>>>>> p
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 21, 2007, at 1:09 PM, Grace Yeh wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also have the same problem for this kind of information. Is
>>>>>> there a
>>>>>> different rates for just creating graphics and logo for a
>>>>>> website?
>>>>>> How much per hour/per project to charge a client?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, is there any information to help for freelancer if a
>>>>>> client is
>>>>>> unwilling to paid a two month project? (They've already used my
>>>>>> graphic on their site for last two month!)
>>>>>> Thanks for all your help.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From NYC,
>>>>>> Grace
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 21, 2007, at 12:17 PM, Phillip Madanire wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello everyone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would you be kind to let me know the current rates/salary/
>>>>>>> compensation we are charging the clients. I am lost in this
>>>>>>> crazy
>>>>>>> good market. You can say the rates hourly, weekly, monthly,
>>>>>>> salary
>>>>>>> wise, project wise or any other kind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With much appreciation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Phillip
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Phillip Madanire
>>>>>
>>>>> BUSINESS CONSULTING SERVICES
>>>>> MARKETING STRATEGY CONSULTING SERVICES
>>>>>
>>>>> 361 WEST 20TH ST 2B
>>>>> NEW YORK NY 10011
>>>>> TEL 212 414 4004 C 347 645 5017
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>> Phillip Madanire
>>>
>>> BUSINESS CONSULTING SERVICES
>>> MARKETING STRATEGY CONSULTING SERVICES
>>>
>>> 361 WEST 20TH ST 2B
>>> NEW YORK NY 10011
>>> TEL 212 414 4004 C 347 645 5017
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
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>
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