[TCUG] Re: Pedestrian revert to all red
- From: "Wallis, Ian" <Ian.Wallis@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "'tcug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'" <tcug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 11:13:49 -0000
The main problem with zebras is that they don't give positive signals for
sight impaired pedestrians.
-----Original Message-----
From: BlackI [mailto:BlackI@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 21 January 2004 10:38
To: tcug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [TCUG] Re: Pedestrian revert to all red
Importance: Low
I can think of another crossing where the pedestrian has right of way over
vehicles.
has nobody considered using a Zebra Crossing instead?
Iain Black AMIHT
Angus Council - Roads Department
County Buildings
Market Street
Forfar
Angus - DD8 3WR
Tel - 01307 47 3172
Fax - 01307 47 3388
Mobile - 07808 943 123
> ----------
> From: tcug-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx[SMTP:tcug-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] on
behalf of Wallis, Ian[SMTP:Ian.Wallis@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Reply To: tcug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: 21 January 2004 10:30
> To: 'tcug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> Subject: [TCUG] Re: Pedestrian revert to all red
>
> *** Before reading or acting on this e-mail, or opening any attachment,
please read Derby City Council's disclaimer and confidentiality statement at
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>
> Mark makes an interesting and slightly worrying point there - I wonder if
he
> could clarify why resting on green man is illegal rather than undesirable
> (what is the legislation).
>
> In common with others we are planning to use this idea in the city centre.
> It is one way we intend to give pedestrian priority on a road where the
only
> traffic is buses and taxis with a small amount of access traffic. Our
> intention at crossings was to use 3 stages - traffic, peds with audibles
and
> tactiles, peds without audibles and tactiles (resting stage) with the
> controller operating on a "go anywhere" basis. At the junction we intend
to
> have the signals rest on green man all round instead of the more usual
rest
> on red.
>
> Ian Wallis
> Derby City Council
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Crabtree, Mark R [mailto:mcrabtree@xxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: 21 January 2004 09:59
> To: tcug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [TCUG] Pedestrian revert to all red
>
>
> Some of you may know that a couple of us at TRL see the tcug freelist.
> It was to allow us to answer MOVA questions (and although that's not
> necessarily an invitation for loads of questions, we are happy to answer
> questions on that subject). We would not normally interject on any other
> subject, however, I think the correspondence on revert to all-red for
> pelicans and puffins needs some comment - we have recently considered
> the issue for the HA.
>
> Firstly - to clear one point, to rest on the green man is, in fact,
> illegal!
>
> Resting on all red (ie red man and red to traffic) isn't illegal, but
> does have at least one potentially dangerous characteristic. If a
> pedestrian approaches the crossing with the traffic signal on red, they
> may suppose that it is safe to cross and start to do so, without having
> pressed the wait button (and ignoring the red-man signal). This could
> coincide with a vehicle being detected, causing the signals to go green
> in favour of traffic. Vehicles then have right of way and may continue,
> with the potential for undesirable consequences! Some of you may
> consider that there are ways to reduce or eliminate this by, for
> example, delaying the change to green to ensure the first car that was
> detected has to stop, or at least slow significantly. Unfortunately, if
> there are two or more lanes, there will always be the potential for the
> green to start such that a vehicle on the approach is afforded
> unhindered progress. Thus we considered resting on all-red as not a good
> idea.
>
> Having identified this potentially dangerous characteristic, and whether
> or not you agree, or have found that doesn't occur in practice, the
> point has been made and is known. If the worst did happen due to the
> circumstances above, it might be difficult to defend the use of all-red.
>
> With regards
>
> Mark
>
> Mark Crabtree
> Principal Engineer
> Tel 01344 770959
> www.trl.co.uk
> www.trlsoftware.co.uk
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> This communication contains information sent from the TRL Limited
> email system which is confidential, and may also be privileged.>
> It is for the exclusive use of the addressee. If you are not the
> addressee, please note that any distribution, copying or use of
> this communication, or the information therein, is prohibited.
> If you have received this communication in error, please notify
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> TRL Limited reserves the right to monitor emails in accordance
> with the Telecommunications Lawful Business Practice -
> Interception of Communications Regulations 2000.
>
> -- HTML Attachment decoded to text by Ecartis --
>
> Pedestrian revert to all red
>
>
>
>
> Some of you may know that a couple of us at TRL see the tcug freelist. It
> wasto allow us to answer MOVA questions (and although that's not
necessarily
> an invitation for loads of questions, we are happy to answer questions on
> that subject). We would not normally interject on any other subject,
> however,I think the correspondence on revert to all-red for pelicans and
> puffins needs some comment - we have recently considered the issue for the
> HA.
>
> Firstly - to clear one point, to rest on the green man is, in fact,
illegal!
>
>
> Resting on all red (ie red man and red to traffic) isn't illegal, but does
> have at least one potentially dangerous characteristic. If a pedestrian
> approaches the crossing with the traffic signal on red, they may suppose
> thatit is safe to cross and start to do so, without having pressed the
wait
> button (and ignoring the red-man signal). This could coincide with a
vehicle
> being detected, causing the signals to go green in favour of traffic.
> Vehicles then have right of way and may continue, with the potential for
> undesirable consequences! Some of you may consider that there are ways to
> reduce or eliminate this by, for example, delaying the change to green to
> ensure the first car that was detected has to stop, or at least slow
> significantly. Unfortunately, if there are two or more lanes, there will
> always be the potential for the green to start such that a vehicle on the
> approach is afforded unhindered progress. Thus we considered resting on
> all-red as not a good idea.
>
> Having identified this potentially dangerous characteristic, and whether
or
> not you agree, or have found that doesn't occur in practice, the point has
> been made and is known. If the worst did happen due to the circumstances
> above, it might be difficult to defend the use of all-red.
>
> With regards
>
> Mark
>
> Mark Crabtree
> Principal Engineer
> Tel 01344 770959
> www.trl.co.uk[1]
> www.trlsoftware.co.uk[2]
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> This communication contains information sent from the TRL Limited
> email system which is confidential, and may also be privileged.
> It is for the exclusive use of the addressee. If you are not the
> addressee, please note that any distribution, copying or use of
> this communication, or the information therein, is prohibited.
> If you have received this communication in error, please notify
> the sender by return email.
>
> TRL Limited reserves the right to monitor emails in accordance
> with the Telecommunications Lawful Business Practice -
> Interception of Communications Regulations 2000.
>
>
> --- Links ---
> 1 file://www.trl.co.uk
> 2 file://www.trlsoftware.co.uk
>
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