RR and everyone
My life style prevent me from keeping up with the recent rapid fire
posts so my responses are sometimes delayed as this one.
RR - You asked for proof from R George and he gave it to you below.
Now how about sharing all the proof you need with the rest of us? It
would give you credibility so why keep it secret? This is a very serious
matter which is in no way simply a matter of point of view. Facts is still
facts which we are all looking for.
Looking for the truth
-----Original Message-----
From: R George <xgeorge@xxxxxxx>
To: sparkscoffee <sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tue, Sep 13, 2016 2:19 pm
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Looking for the truth
As I said I have all the proof I need. I understand you have a different
point of view.
Freedom of the Press score 2016, 0 is best - 100 is worst, USA 21,
Russia 83 and China 87.
On 9/13/2016 10:52 AM, Ron Ristad wrote:
By the time the Allied forces entered Germany in 1945 the German army
and the German people were starving to death. You would not expect to
find prisoners well-fed.
Over 1 million German POW's died in Allied POW camps, aka
"Eisenhower's Death Camps" .
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v10/v10p161_brech.html
These are the horrors of war.
Why is it that we never hear about all the other 60 million
people who died? Why are we not constantly being reminded of all the
German and Japanese citizens who died from nuclear bombs and the fire
bombing of urban German and Japanese population centers, or the
millions of people who died in Russian forced labor camps?
-----Original Message-----
From: R George
Sent: Sep 13, 2016 11:04 AM
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Looking for the truth
This is all the proof I need.
RG
U.S. Policy During WWII:
U.S. Army & the Holocaust
U.S. Policy: Table of Contents | Auschwitz
Bombing Controversy | "We Will Never Die"
On April 5, 1945, units from the American Fourth Armored
Division of the Third Army were the first
Americans to discover a camp with prisoners and
corpses.
Ohrdruf was a Buchenwald sub-camp, and of the 10,000
male slave inmates, many had been sent on death
marches, shot in pits, or their corpses
were stacked in the woods and burned. The Americans
found the camp by accident – they did not set out to
liberate camps, they happened upon them – and found
starved, frail bodies of hundreds of prisoners who had
managed to survive, as well as the corpses. In
Nordhausen, on the 11th, the American Timberwolf
Division found 3,000 corpses and 700 starving,
ill, and war-wounded survivors who were slaves in
the V-2 rocket factories.
An Austrian-born Jewish U.S. soldier, Fred Bohm,
helped liberate Nordhausen. He described
fellow GI's as having "no particular feeling for
fighting the Germans. They also thought that any stories
they had read in the paper, or that I had told them
out of first-hand experience, were either not
true or at least exaggerated. And it did not sink
in, what this was all about, until we got into
Nordhausen."
When the American Combat Team 9 of the 9th Armored
Infantry Battalion, Sixth Armored
Division were led to Buchenwald by
Russians, the camp contained 30,000 prisoners in a
pyramid of power, with German Communists at the top, in
the main barracks, and Jews and gypsies at the bottom,
living in Little Camp, in an assortment of barns.
Buchenwald barrack prisoners were reasonably healthy
looking. The Little Camp had
1,000 to 1,200 prisoners in a space meant for 450.
Witnesses described prisoners as "emaciated beyond all
imagination or description. Their legs and arms were
sticks with huge bulging joints, and their loins were
fouled by their own excrement. Their eyes were sunk so
deep that they looked blind. If they moved at all, it
was with a crawling slowness that made them look
like huge, lethargic spiders. Many just lay in
their bunks as if dead." After liberation, hundreds
of prisoners died daily.
Generals George Patton, Omar Bradley, and Dwight
Eisenhower arrived in Ohrdruf on
April 12, the day of President Franklin
D. Roosevelt's death. They found 3,200 naked,
emaciated bodies in shallow graves.Eisenhower found a
shed piled to the ceiling with bodies, various
torture devices, and a butcher's block for
smashing gold fillings from the mouths of the dead.
Patton became physically ill. Eisenhower turned white at
the scene inside the gates, but insisted on seeing the
entire camp. "We are told that the American soldier does
not know what he was fighting for," he said. "Now, at
least he will know what he is fighting against."
After leaving Ohrdruf, Eisenhower wrote to
Chief of Staff General George Marshall,
attempting to describe things that "beggar description."
The evidence of starvation and bestiality "were so
overpowering as to leave me a bit sick," Bradley later
wrote about the day: "The smell of death overwhelmed
us." Patton, whose reputation for toughness was
legendary, was overcome. He refused to enter a room
where the bodies of naked men who had starved to death
were piled, saying "he would get sick if he did
so," Eisenhower reported. "I visited every nook
and cranny." It was his duty, he felt, "to be in a
position from then on to testify about these things in
case there ever grew up at home the belief … that the
stories of Nazi brutality were just propaganda."
(Seemingly, he intuited then that these crimes might be
denied.)
Eisenhower issued an order that American units in the
area were to visit the camp. He also issued a call to
the press back home. A group of prominent
journalists, led by the dean of American
publishers, Joseph Pulitzer, came to see the
concentration camps. Pulitzer initially had "a
suspicious frame of mind," he wrote. He expected
to find that many of "the terrible reports"
printed in the United States were "exaggerations and
largely propaganda." But they were understatements, he
reported.
Within days, Congressional delegations came to visit
the concentration camps,
accompanied by journalists and photographers. General
Patton was so angry at what he found at Buchenwald that
he ordered the Military Police to go to Weimar,
four miles away, and bring back 1,000 civilians
to see what their leaders had done, to witness what
some human beings could do to others. The MP's were so
outraged they brought back 2,000. Some turned away. Some
fainted. Even veteran, battle-scarred correspondents
were struck dumb. In a legendary broadcast on April 15,
Edward R. Murrow gave the
American radio audience a stunning matter-of-fact
description of Buchenwald, of the piles of dead bodies
so emaciated that those shot through the head had barely
bled, and of those children who still lived, tattooed
with numbers, whose ribs showed through their thin
shirts. "I pray you to believe what I have said
about Buchenwald," Murrow asked listeners. "I
have reported what I saw and heard, but only part of it;
for most of it I have no words." He added, "If I have
offended you by this rather mild account of Buchenwald,
I am not in the least sorry."
It was these reports, the newsreel pictures that were
shot and played in theaters, and the visits of
important delegations that proved to be
influential in the public consciousness of the still
unnamed German atrocities and the perception that
something awful had been done to the Jews.
Then the American forces liberated Dachau,
the first concentration camp built by the
Germans in 1933. There were 67,665 registered prisoners
in Dachau and its subcamps; 43,350 were political
prisoners; 22,100 were Jews, and a percentage of
"others." As Allied forces advanced, the Germans moved
prisoners from concentration camps near the
front to prevent their liberation. Transports
arrived at Dachau continuously, resulting in severe
deterioration of conditions. Typhus epidemics, poor
sanitary conditions, and the weakened state of the
prisoners worsened conditions further and spread disease
even faster.
On April 26, 1945, as the Americans approached Dachau
about 7,000 prisoners, most of them Jews, were sent on
a death march to
Tegernsee. Three days later, American troops
liberated the main camp and found 28 wagons of
decomposing bodies in addition to thousands of starving
and dying prisoners. Then in early May 1945, American
forces liberated the prisoners who had been sent on the
death march.
After World War II, the Allies
were faced with repatriating 7,000,000 displaced
persons in Germany andAustria, of whom
1,000,000 refused or were unable to return to their
homes. These included nationals from the Baltic
countries, Poles, Ukrainians, and Yugoslavs who were
anti-communists and/or fascists afraid of prosecution
for collaborating with the Nazis and Jews. The Allies
were forced to service citizens of 52 nationalities in
900 DP camps, under the aegis of the United
Nations Relief and Rehabilitation
Administration (UNRRA). Lack of trained personnel,
absence of a clear policy, and poor planning and
management prevented the agency from fulfilling its role
properly. Private relief organizations were
gradually permitted to operate in the camps, but
at best could provide only partial aid. Consequently,
the United States Army, with a shrinking budget and
inexperienced personnel, assumed major responsibility
for the DPs. It was not a responsibility they
anticipated or they welcomed but they had no other
choice.
Each national group and religious denomination
demanded recognition of its own problems. In
order to avoid charges of discrimination, the American
army adopted a policy of evenhandedness toward all the
DPs, a policy that adversely affected Jewish DPs
housed in the same camps with Poles, Baltic
nationals, and Ukrainians. In those camps, the Jews
who survived the Holocaust remained exposed to
antisemitic discrimination. They were living among
antisemites who had hostility toward them. Furthermore,
only after liberation could survivors begin to feel, to
sense what had been lost. Others could return home,
Jewish survivors had no homes to which to return.
The American army was beleaguered. Trained for war,
they had to juggle multiple assignments: the
occupation, the Cold War, and the problems of
survivors who were naturally distrustful of all
authority and in need of medical and psychological
attention.
Short-term problems, such as housing, medical treatment,
food, and family reunification, were acute. The
army had no long-term strategy. The survivors
had nowhere to go. Britain was unwilling to permit
Jewish immigration to Palestine and the United
States was not ready to receive
refugees.
Homosexuals continued to suffer, even with the end of
the war. Paragraph 175 of the German legal code
stated that male homosexuality, but not female
lesbianism, was punishable by imprisonment. After
1943, male homosexuals had been forced to wear a pink
triangle and were sent to the death camps. After the
liberation, the Americans did not repeal Paragraph 175
and sent homosexual inmates liberated from the camps to
other prisons.
Preferential treatment to Jews was denied on the ground
that this would be a confirmation of the Nazi racial
doctrine, which differentiated between Jews and
others. The Jews were therefore dealt with
according to their country of origin; Jews from Germany,
for example, were classified as "enemy aliens," just
like the Nazis.
American troops who liberated the concentration camps
felt sympathy for the Jewish DPs,
and many JewishGIS and officers went out of their way to
assist the survivors. But that sympathy did not extend
to men who arrived on following troop rotations.
Unfamiliar with history and facts, they had
little or no sympathy for the Jews. It did not help
that concentration camp survivors mistrusted people,
were hypersensitive, and had acquired habits that did
not compare favorably with the local German and Austrian
population. Some objected to the fact that they took
care of their biological needs in hallways and outside;
one officer provided a simple solution of
latrines and the problem ceased.
Americans' contacts with antisemitic Germans stirred up
innate personal prejudices held by troops. Some
American commanders suspected that the DPs
from Eastern Europe included Soviet agents, and that
Jews had a predisposition to communist beliefs. The Army
also treated the DPs as if they stood in the way of the
pre-Cold-War rush to rehabilitate Germany. By June 1945,
conflicts were heated enough for President
Truman to send Earl G. Harrison to the American
Zone on a fact-finding mission. His visit was complete
with political overtones and his report was a bombshell.
His conclusions were harsh, even overstated:
We appear to be treating the Jews as the Nazis
treated them except that we do not exterminate
them. They are in concentration camps in large
numbers under our military guard instead of SStroops.
One is led to wonder whether the German people seeing
this are not supposing that we are following or at
least condoning Nazi policy.
His recommendations were equally dramatic:
Jews must be recognized as Jews. They should be
evacuated from Germany quickly. One hundred
thousand Jews should be admitted to Palestine.
President Truman endorsed the Report, rebuked the
army, and intensified pressure on Britain. He opened
up the United States for limited immigration.
After the pogrom by Polish fascists that killed 60–70
Jews in *Kielce , Poland, on July
4, 1946, more than 100,000 Jews fled to the American
Zone aided by *Beriḥah , overcrowding the camps and
straining the Army's budget, but when the administration
tried to close the borders, the American Jews pressured
them to reopen them. Twice the American
government kept the borders open.
From April 1945 to the summer of 1947, the Jewish DP
population in the American Zone exploded from 30,000 to
250,000 as the Jews fled the Soviet Bloc. The
Jews had no place else to go, since no one would
take them in. As their needs grew, and U.S. Army
charged with caring for them was being restricted by
budget cuts, the U.S. tried to transfer control of the
Jews to the local German governments, which the Jews
refused to accept under any circumstances.
On April 19, 1947, General Lucius Clay, commander of the
American forces in Germany closed the borders to
the American Zone and denied UN aid to
newcomers, but 12,000 Jews from Romania and Hungary
managed to enter. The American Army usually closed their
eyes to illegal immigration, especially when the
immigrants were Jews. But as time went by, and troops
were replaced, the communication, tolerance, and
relationships deteriorated between the Americans
and the Jews, especially in matters concerning
the black market, which led to raids and even violence.
When Israel was established in May 1948 and Congress
passed the Wiley-Revercomb Displaced Persons
bill allowing 100,000 DPs to come to America, the
situation changed again. The camps were essentially
empty and changed the Army's attitude to those who
remained behind.
At the end of the day, the Army has been praised by some
historians and scholars, and reviled by others.
Typical are Abraham Hyman who calls the postwar
period and the Army's treatment of the Jewish DPs
the Army's finest hours. Leonard Dinnerstein, a
historian, criticized the Army for being insensitive and
unduly harsh.
On 9/13/2016 9:54 AM, Ron Ristad wrote:
RG,
That's your proof? Every aspect of the Holocaust
narrative either has no verifiable evidence to back
it up, or the evidence disproves it. If it were true then
there should be overwhelming evidence to support it
(official records, bodies, thousands of photos, intercepted
traffic, chemical analysis, etc., etc.) but there is none.
Absolutely none. What evidence there is from chemical
analysis, etc. proves that it could not have happened.
-RR
-----Original Message-----
From: R George
Sent: Sep 13, 2016 10:34 AM
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Looking for the
truth
You
know very well what evidence.
The use of extermination camps (also called
"death camps") equipped with gas chambers
for the systematic mass extermination
of peoples was an unprecedented feature of
the Holocaust. These were established at
Auschwitz, Belzec, Chelmno, Jasenovac,
Majdanek,
Maly Trostenets, Sobibór, and Treblinka.
They were built for the systematic killing
of millions, primarily by gassing, but also by
execution
and extreme work under starvation
conditions. Stationary facilities built for
the purpose of mass extermination resulted from
earlier
Nazi experimentation with poison gas during
the secret Action T4 euthanasia programme
against mental patients.
Tell these kids how glorious it was to serve
Der Fuhrur.
