[sib-access] Re: Writing lyrics to slightly different verses
- From: "David G. Carlson" <dgcarlson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <sib-access@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2013 12:23:50 -0700
Ben,
As to the stem directions, Sibelius automatically aligns the stems for voice
1 and 2 in opposite directions. Same for voices 3 and 4.
So you should not have to change the stems yourself.
David G. Carlson
Marketing / Sales Engineer
RF Timing and Synchronization
dgcarlson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: "Benjamin Blatter" <benjaminblatter@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <sib-access@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2013 11:55 AM
Subject: [sib-access] Re: Writing lyrics to slightly different verses
Oh, great! Have many thanks, Dan. I wasn't aware that this method is
used in vocal music as well.
Does one have to take care of the steems? looking in the right
directions when adding a secondth or thirth voice? I did this once and
then a sighted teacher told me that the steems looked in the wrong
direction. I then had to switch directions by pressing the letter x.
but I'm not sure if this was just an accident or if one always should do
that after entering additional voices with different rhythems. Or does
sibelius usually take care for that?
Thanks and kind regards
Ben
Am 05.10.2013 16:39, schrieb Dan Rugman:
> The normal way to do this is to create two voices at the point where the
> rhythm changes. You then need to add the lyrics into the respective voices
> so that they appear under the correct notes. The difficulty is in making
> sure that the lyrics appear in the correct vertical position. Using
> different lyric styles should do it (e.g. verse 1, verse 2, verse 3, etc).
> You should get a sighted transcriber to take a look at the finished result
> just in case.
>
> Dan
> -----Original Message-----
> From:sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Benjamin Blatter
> Sent: 05 October 2013 13:51
> To:sib-access@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [sib-access] Re: Writing lyrics to slightly different verses
>
> Hi Dale and all
> thank you for your suggestion. I'm afraid I don't understand everything
> completely yet. Might be because my native language is German.
>
> You wrote:
> > By adjusting the ties, either placing one or removing that one,
> depending
> on > which verse you are inputting, you should be able to make it work.
>
> But what about the different melody? Verse 1 and 2 sound identical, the
> third verse has two notes more. Should I just write the different third
> verse and join these two notes with a tie? Then comunicate the difference
> in
> the rehearsal? And if I understand correctly there is still the problem
> that
> sibelius won't place a syllable on the seconth of two tied notes, right?
> but
> that's exactly what I would need.
>
> Maybe luck is with me right now: I just discovered this song as a free
> music
> sheet download. Seems that I escaped yet again. but I really want to know
> how this is done properly because I'm sure I'll run in this situation
> again
> soon.
> I'll try to find out how this problem is solved in this official score.
> Hopefully we can find a way in sibelius too. I'll keep you informed.
>
> Thanks for all your help
> Ben
>
>
>
>
>
> Am 05.10.2013 11:28, schrieb Dale Lieser:
>> Hello, Ben,
>>
>> I have encountered the same situation you describe. I think the
>> solution is to actually adjust the number of notes depending on which
>> verse you are inputting. It seems to me it shouldn't have to be so,
>> but I haven't yet discovered a way around it. Also, in vocal music it
>> is common for to eighth notes, for example, to be tied (not slurred)
>> together. The singer will see that for one verse, let's say, a
>> syllable will have the duration of a quarter, which in our example is
>> the two tied eighth notes. In the next verse there might be a syllable
>> allotted to each of the eighth notes. The annoying thing is that
>> Sibelius treats the tie as it usually would, and not place a syllable on
> the second of those eighths.
>> By adjusting the ties, either placing one or removing that one,
>> depending on which verse you are inputting, you should be able to make it
> work.
>> Does this help?
>>
>> Dale
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Benjamin Blatter
>> Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2013 1:27 AM
>> To:sib-access@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [sib-access] Writing lyrics to slightly different verses
>>
>> Hello all
>>
>> I'm writing a choir arrangement for a song. The first two verses are
>> rhytmically identical. But the third verse has two notes in addition
>> because of some more lyrics which have to fit in.
>> Well, I finally encounter a problem which I somehow was able to avoid
>> spectacularly for many years by just not writing the verses at all or
>> adding or leaving some words. but now I'd like really to know how one
>> is supposed to deal with this situation.
>>
>> I wrote the first verse in a text file and imported it by pressing Alt
>> C, X, Y and F. I think I did it right, it's really simple stuff. My
>> problem for the first and 2nd verse is that there are now actually two
>> notes which don't have any lyrics and shouldn't be sung either. I
>> tried to let sibelius move the text cursor by adding three spaces
>> where no lyrics should be. But wheter I try it with 3 or 4 spaces
>> sibelius always tells me that my lyrics seem to be shorter than the
>> music.
>> I hope you get what my problem is about.
>>
>> By the way I really want to thank you Dale Lieser again for your great
>> tutorial about inputting lyrics. This tutorial did speed up my
>> workflow extremely. And overall I rarely need sighted assistance in
>> dealing with layout problems anymore.
>> for anyone who missed this tutorial I'll copy it below.
>> Thanks all for your help and kind regards Ben
>>
>>
>> Tutorial
>>
>> INPUTTING LYRICS FROM TEXT FILE
>>
>>
>> Sibelius provides the means for efficient entry of lyrics via the
>> "From text file" option. Once a text file of lyrics has been carefully
>> created, this feature gets the lyrics from that file and aligns them
>> properly with the notes of the selected passage. The sequence of
>> keystrokes for the "From Text File" feature is: alt+c, x, y, f.
>>
>>
>>
>> Preparing the Text File
>>
>> Proper hyphenation and spacing are the two most important
>> considerations when writing your text file. Hyphenation should follow
>> the normal practice of dividing words and nothing more. Spacing, however,
> demands much detail.
>> Remember that both the hyphen (-)and space (blank space entered via
>> the
>> <spacebar>) advance the Sibelius cursor to the next note.
>>
>>
>>
>> In multi-syllabic words in which each component applies to only one
>> note, no extra spacing is required. But when one syllable spans more
>> than a single note, additional spaces cause Sibelius to execute the
>> appropriate visual indications while also working proper alignment with
> the notes.
>>
>>
>> Let's use the line from the carol Joy to the World, "Let every heart
>> prepare Him room, And", as our example. With a 2/4 meter, our example
>> will be approximately 4 measures long. Carefully examine the following
>> line with regard to hyphenation and spacing, and then we'll discuss it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Let eve- ry heart pre-pare Him room, And
>>
>>
>>
>> First, note that the hyphenation offers no surprises, the words being
>> divided in standard places.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now the examination of spacing. Remember that a single space advances
>> to the next note. The "extra" spaces provide the necessary advancing
>> to other notes to which a given syllable applies. In the first
>> syllable of "every", the hyphen serves to advance the cursor to the
>> next note. Then, even though one would not normally have a space in
>> the middle of a word, just such a thing is required here, in order to not
> get to the second syllable too soon.
>>
>>
>> The second syllable of "every" is followed by two, yes, 2 spaces.
>> Since no hyphen is involved because the word "every" has ended, the
>> extra space is what tells Sibelius that the word "heart" does not come
>> just yet. In other words, each syllable of "every" is sung on two
>> notes, so the first syllable of the word is followed immediately by a
>> hyphen and a space; and the second syllable is followed by two spaces,
> rather than a hyphen and a space.
>>
>>
>> Since the word "heart" is only one syllable, but spans three notes in
>> our example, the setting of this lyric to its notes calls for three
> spaces.
>>
>>
>> For the sake of our example, let's call hyphens and spaces
>> "advancers", because of the forward movement they exert on the cursor.
>> Here is the rule for entering lyrics for proper spacing:
>>
>>
>>
>> Beginning of Rule
>>
>> The number of advancers must be equal to the number of notes for a
>> given syllable.
>>
>> End of Rule
>>
>>
>>
>> So then, you can use a hyphen, a space, or a combination of a hyphen
>> and one or more spaces to get the job done. Note that you will not use
>> two consecutive hyphens. However, consecutive spaces are not uncommon.
>> The only place for a hyphen in a set of advancers is the beginning of
>> the string. Do not use a hyphen between or after spaces.
>>
>>
>>
>> Other Considerations
>>
>> Although Sibelius offers the option of hyphenating lyrics
>> automatically, do not use that choice, since reviewing the result, and
>> editing if necessary, are more cumbersome than worthwhile. Also,
>> editing the lyrics usually destroys the alignment Sibelius has so
>> nicely provided when flowing from a text file.
>>
>>
>>
>> Punctuation should be placed just as it would be in literary writing.
>> Do not let a hyphen or space separate punctuation from the syllable to
>> which it belongs.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sibelius requires that the appropriate slurs and ties be in place in
>> your score before flowing in the lyrics.
>>
>>
>>
>> While gaining familiarity with the "From Text File" feature, you might
>> consider dividing a score's lyrics into smaller segments, perhaps
>> designating one file for each verse, another for the chorus, etc. Then
>> flow the lyrics into the score one section at a time. Remember, you'll
>> need to select a passage in the score so Sibelius knows the boundaries
>> of the coming lyrics. The advantage of working in smaller units is
>> that, if Sibelius recognizes an error, such as too few or too many
>> lyrics for the selected passage, it becomes easier to hone in on the
> problem.
>>
>>
>> Be careful to not use a <return> or any blank lines in your text file.
>> The temptation might be to do so for basic formatting. Override that
>> desire. No blank lines in the text file.
>>
>>
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