Cool ! Say tomorrow my boss wants me to do such analysis, which company is shipping this excellent tool ? I want to get my hands on it like yesterday. Is any one of your FPGA customer doing it yet ? Please share your insight. -----Original Message----- From: Pratt, Gary [mailto:gary_pratt@xxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 5:40 PM To: ray.anderson@xxxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: package SSN model accuracy requirements Actually, there was one irreverent poster who was saying SSO could be done with IBIS (as it stands today). That is assuming one can generate an accurate (causal, passive, etc) s-parameter model for an appropriate section of the package (with say, up to perhaps 200 ports). =20 IBIS 4.1 with IEEE standard 1076.1 provides all the facilities one would need to create an IBIS standard model which would simulate supply current and driver output characteristics to any level of accuracy desired. Couple this with an SI tool that accepts large s-parameter models, and I believe you are ready to roll. =20 Couple this with silicon configuration software that can write an IBIS 4.1 file, and one has the makings of an easy to use application for SSO analysis. =20 Gary -----Original Message----- From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ray Anderson Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 10:48 AM To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: package SSN model accuracy requirements Chris- I think you may be misinterpreting what Lynne and the other posters in this thread have been discussing so far. No one seems to be saying that SSO simulations should be done with IBIS (as it stands today). The discussion is centered around the various package models. An IBIS model consists of the silicon model portion and the package model portion. One can take the package model portion (that is described in IBIS syntax) and rewrite it in Spice syntax if you so desire. So while some of the statements earlier in the thread may have referenced "IBIS lumped models" and "IBIS ICM" models, the crux of the discussion is related to model topologies, model complexity, model bandwidth, and model size where the "model" in question is the package model. All of these model attributes are relevant to SSO simulations regardless of what you choose as the silicon driver model. -Ray Chris Cheng wrote: >You can say what you want with IBIS, at the end of the day (today, not=20 >tomorrow or some future spec), can you do an SSO analysis based on a=20 >pure IBIS model ? > >I am a complete N00b on FPGA so I am curious how many people really do=20 >SSO analysis with just a standard IBIS description of a chip. I can't,=20 >so please tell me how you did it. > >Those who know me and my previous life somewhere should remember some=20 >of those reference SPICE SSO models I generated, there is only a small=20 >number of SPICE drivers, interconnect and receivers set that need to be >included to accurately model SSO, x-talk, package/interconnect loss.=20 >Remember, m=3Dx is a very powerful macro that doesn't even need to be = an integer. > >Another interesting side note, some of the so call speedy "IBIS=20 >engines" end up barely faster or even slower in some cases when the=20 >same interconnect complexity is added to get the accuracy close to acceptable level. > >All of the above SSO modelling methodolgies are well documented and=20 >correlated with actual characterization numbers. I am not talking about >vaporware analysis here. > =20 > -- Raymond Anderson Senior Signal Integrity Staff Engineer Product Technology Dept. Package Engineering Group Xilinx Inc. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: =20 //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu