[SI-LIST] Re: modeling for tantalum capacitors and aluminium electrolytic capacitors
- From: steve weir <weirsp@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: tbiggs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 10:04:06 -0800
Tom, as usual, Doug offers a creative and effective solution.
For those with access to a VNA, a microstrip fixture with SMAs affords
characterization from S21 measurements, that is very repeatable.
Regards,
Steve
.
At 09:20 AM 1/6/2005 -0800, Tom Biggs wrote:
>There is an interesting article on Doug Smith's website about a simple
>way of measuring capacitors using just a pulse generator:
>
>http://emcesd.com/tt020100.htm
>
> -tom
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>On Behalf Of TeddyChou@xxxxxxxxxx
>Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 1:42 AM
>To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: modeling for tantalum capacitors and aluminium
>electrolytic capacitors
>
>
>Hi Ray and John,
>Thanks for your great help. These papers are very useful for me. So does
>John's PDS book.
>
>TeddyChou
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ray Anderson [mailto:ray.anderson@xxxxxxxxxx]
>Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 12:31 AM
>To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Cc: Teddy Chou
>Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] modeling for tantalum capacitors and aluminium
>electrolytic capacitors
>
>
>TeddyChou@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>
> >I just learned about power distribution system design. So far, I have=20
> >had some experiences in ceramic cap modeling by VNA measurement. But I=20
> >couldn't find any materials or papers to talk about how to measure=20
> >tantalum capacitors and aluminium electrolytic capacitors. Does any SI=20
> >expert know it? Thanks in advance.
> >
> >Teddy Chou
> > =20
> >
>John Barnes just posted a most excellent bibliography of numerous papers
>
>and other resources related to PDN design. I'd recommend looking into=20
>any number of those listed publications.
>
>To answer your question more specifically, I'd recommend you visit=20
>Istvan Novak's web site and obtain copies of several of the papers he=20
>and some of his colleagues have written on the topic of decoupling=20
>capacitor measurement techniques over the past several years.=20
>Specifically, check out the following three papers:
>
>"Measuring MilliOhms and PicoHenrys in Power Distribution Networks"
>http://home.att.net/~istvan.novak/papers/dc2000_rev.pdf
>http://home.att.net/~istvan.novak/papers/dc2000_slides.pdf
>
>"Frequency-domain Power Distribution Measurements - An Overview"
>http://home.att.net/~inovak/papers/DC03-East_HP-TF1_SUN.PDF
>
>"Frequency Dependent Characterization of bulk and Ceramic Bypass
>Capacitors"
>http://home.att.net/~istvan.novak/papers/EPEP2003_cap_models.PDF
>http://home.att.net/~istvan.novak/papers/EPEP2003_cap_models_poster.PDF
>
>One of the key concepts that you'll take away from these articles is the
>
>problem of errors induced by cable-braid ground loops and the need for=20
>isolation transformers or isolation amplifiers when making low frequency
>
>ESR measurements on bulk capacitors. The isolation techniques he=20
>presents can reduce the errors induced by the ground loop effect that=20
>can mask the actual low value impedances you are trying to measure.
>
>Ray Anderson
>Senior Signal Integrity Staff Engineer
>Xilinx Inc.
>=20
>
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