[SI-LIST] Re: Rise/Fall time Vs Bit rate.
- From: Istvan Novak <istvan.novak@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: Tesla <emcesd@xxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 19:36:44 -0400
Hi Tesla,
The last (and fifth this year) update on the website was
on May 10, 2012, I just dont want to spam the list
announcing each update. Though the next update in a few
weeks will be announced here: new Excel spreadsheets
will be posted, which were requested by several people.
Regards,
Istvan
On 8/29/2012 2:42 AM, Tesla wrote:
> Hi, Istvan
> Thanks a lot.
> it is a long time that there is no update on your website......
> Regards.
> Tesla.
>
>
> At 2012-08-28 19:12:18,"Istvan Novak" <istvan.novak@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >Tesla,
> >
> >This Intel paper was at DesignCon 2009, titled
> >"Switching Voltage Regulator Noise Coupling Analysis for
> >Printed Circuit Board Systems" by Amy Luoh, Gene Garrison and Jon Powell.
> >
> >BTW low-speed buses often fail because people focus on the most
> >challenging, highest-speed interconnects and then time runs out in the
> >design schedule.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >
> >Istvan Novak
> >Oracle
> >
> >
> >On 8/28/2012 6:00 AM, Tesla wrote:
> >> Hi, Steve
> >>
> >> Thanks a lot
> >>
> >> Would you give a link about the intel paper you mentioned? Be interested
> >> to read it.
> >>
> >> Regards.
> >>
> >> Tesla
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> At 2012-08-28 16:15:37,"steve weir" <weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>> If one is dealing with data signals, then as long as they settle out at
> >>> valid logic levels by the time they are sampled, and remain stable long
> >>> enough to satisfy hold time requirements, then all is good. That
> >>> observation has lulled many a digital engineer into "Sauron's Happy
> >>> Fun-Time Intermittent Failure Party at Mount Doom"(tm) when they neglect
> >>> the fact that not all low-rate signals are data. Some low-rate signals
> >>> are timing strobes, such as TCLK on a JTAG bus. Timing strobes not only
> >>> have to settle-out at valid levels, they need to be free of waveform
> >>> artifacts like double transitions.
> >>>
> >>> Then there are high impedance dinosaur busses that say: "Hey sailor:
> >>> For $20 dollars I'll take your induced noise around the world." A few
> >>> years ago Intel presented a DesignCon paper where they described
> >>> spending the better part of a million dollars on manpower and
> >>> sophisticated software tools, as well as nearly half a year tracking
> >>> down signal integrity problems on a lowly I2C bus. Every month or two
> >>> induced noise would cause servers to reset.
> >>>
> >>> Steve.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 8/28/2012 12:23 AM, Rohit MISHRA wrote:
> >>>> Rajneesh,
> >>>>
> >>>> That's a good question, indeed !!
> >>>>
> >>>> You rightly pointed out that slow repetition pulses driven by fast
> >>>> driver can also have reflections & other transmission line effects but
> >>>> you should also understand that these effects create signal integrity
> >>>> problems most when they have less time to settle.
> >>>>
> >>>> The signal pulse width and duty cycle are not factors in deciding
> >>>> transmission line behavior such as reflections but when you use high
> >>>> pulse width i.e. low bit rate signal, you are also giving more time to
> >>>> settle these effects before sampling at receiver end and remember, what
> >>>> the signal looks like at sampling that matters most !
> >>>>
> >>>> Hope that helps.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Rohit Mishra
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >>>> On Behalf Of rajneesh shukla
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 12:29 PM
> >>>> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Rise/Fall time Vs Bit rate.
> >>>>
> >>>> Experts,
> >>>> We all have read that in high speed design it's rise time that creates
> >>>> signal integrity issue. By this theory, all low bit rate signals that
> >>>> is driven by fast I/O driver will also have signal integrity issues then
> >>>> why most of the time high bit rate signals are analysed for signal
> >>>> integrity issue ??
> >>>>
> >>>> Please explain what is the role of bit rate in signal integrity ??
> >>>>
> >>>> Rajneesh
> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Steve Weir
> >>> IPBLOX, LLC
> >>> 150 N. Center St. #211
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> >>> www.ipblox.com
> >>>
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