In a message dated 12/2/2005 9:33:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, MarcatoGSD@xxxxxxx writes: I guess I'll have to disagree then. I see the Germans stacking their dogs four square all the time for people to show they have straight parallel hocks. Heck, I was told to do it to Strauss to see if he could stand properly. In a message dated 12/2/2005 1:44:34 AM Central Standard Time, carolynmckenna@xxxxxxxxx writes: First, there can be no such"hock test" on a proper German shepherd - Jackie Marcato Shepherds I have to agree w/ Jackie on this one. While it's common for a GSD to "self stack", one that is put together properly will have no problem standing 4 square. It's not a German thing or an American thing, (so let's not go there!), it's a loose ligamentation/poorly constructed/possibly lower leg bones out of proportion (too long in stifle?) "thing" when you get a dog who can't/won't stand 4 square. We had a FV a few years back (no names) that was so bad, if you watched dead on when he was stacked, you'd see the handler support his off side or the poor thing looked like he'd tip over. Sorry...not correct. Never did finish....extreme top line and lovely from the side though. You can find dogs who are incorrect and many have the heart to work through it, (i.e. a cow hocked BC, and they DO allow for some of that, however they are a lot closer to the ground than our dogs and herd in a totally different manner; we have a "border" type, loose eyed dog, they sure don't!) Doesn't make it the best function for the job, though... Kathy three generations of Dual Titled Champions live here! visit _Pine Hill German Shepherd Dogs_ (http://www.geocities.com/pinehillgsds/) ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================