nice try Tom, but you left out one level of fear 1.No fear 2.Suspicion 3.Submission 4.Escape 5.Married ...lol.....fB Gsdman2@xxxxxxx wrote: If you think about it, there are probably four levels of fear in dogs. 1. No Fear 2. Suspicion 3. Submission 4. Escape Some might disagree, but I believe Suspicion is ideal for the GSD. While No Fear seems like the best of the list, without at least suspicion, protective instinct has no trigger. Although I agree that environment can have a serious impact on temperament, genetics surely plays the major role in general. In fact, fear is a survival trait. There is probably no species of animal that is fearless, and if there ever was, it very likely was gobbled up by a bigger and tougher critter thousands of years ago. Watch your litters. There is always a pecking order. There is always an alpha ... always challengers to the alpha, and there are always the submissive ones. Take the alpha out of the litter, and the challenger will become the alpha if he or she is not immediately challenged and defeated by one that was once submissive. Take out every puppy but the submissive ones, and watch as one becomes the alpha. Fear is genetically engraved in any animal. How well other traits overcome that fear is what creates their true temperament, according to what I've seen. Our second bitch was an absolute spook. She hid from virtually anything that wasn't a part of her normal day. There was something strange about her though. If anyone dared raise a hand toward anyone in my family, she would instantly come out of hiding ready to do whatever was necessary to protect us. With that bitch, the level of fear was just sad, but the instinct to protect was much stronger. Think about it ... If that bitch were living in the wild, she and her litters would have the greatest advantage for survival. It seems logical that a total lack of fear would not be natural, and actually a liability when looking at it from nature's point of view. Interestingly, we were able to train that same bitch for the ring. Trainability can also overcome fear, as I'm sure many of us know. Something else to consider is the fact that fear is actually a biological reaction. We think of it as a mental trait, but the truth is, fear is created by a chemical reaction in the brain. The mental part of the equation is whatever triggers that chemical reaction. I was a shy kid, my dad was shy, his mother was shy ... shyness is genetic. However, people, and dogs, can be conditioned to overcome their shyness. I am no longer shy around dog people. My confidence level is pretty high due to years of experience and study. Still, put me in a crowded room with people I don't know, and I'll be the quiet guy in the corner. Anyone who knows my wife Peggy, knows she's not at all shy. Thankfully, my kids took after her in that department. Many of us have witnessed lines that start out normal, hit puberty, go through an embarrassing shy period, and then outgrow it. I have no doubt that is genetic too. The question each individual breeder has to answer is whether that temporary insanity is enough of a problem to take a chance on going through regularly. Character and Temperament are complex but interesting subjects. Another thing to think about is this... Socializing puppies is a most important duty when raising a litter. However, when you socialize a puppy, you are actually eliminating, though conditioning, potential fear reaction triggers. This is simple with some puppies, not as simple with others, difficult with a few more, and next to impossible with some. Which of these puppies will grow up worthy of breeding? Tom Langlitz ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. 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NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================