Thanks Martin, and also Nicolas for your comprehensive reply. The latest update I have is that indeed the developer is dying. Testing last night revealed that a 1+9 dilution takes 5 minutes to reach Dmax (of 2.1) and 1+4 takes 3minutes for Dmax of 2.1. As Nicholas suggested, longer times should further increase the Dmax. I have Dektol and Ilford Cool tone developer arriving tomorrow. If they end up giving me Dmax of say 2.3 or 2.4 then I'll probably not persist with the Neutol Plus. However with a little planning and testing, I plan to continue using my Neutol Plus. The first thing I am going to do is to transfer all the concentrated solutions into glass bottles. This page <http://silvergrain.org/Photo-Tech/plastic.html>identifies the permeability of different plastics often used for photographic chemicals. It suggests transferring to glass containers for long term storage. Guess which plastic the Neutol Plus was sold in from AGFA ? HDPE which has the poorest gas permeability .... I cut open the plastic bottle last night and it didn't appear to have have an additional plastic lining in it. Then each time I use the Neutol Plus, I will do a quick Dmax test to see how long I need to leave the paper in the dev for. Some might say I'm crazy, but I have my reasons. I have 3 young children and just the other day one of them got their stool, leaned over the otp of my sink and inquisitively plonked their hand into my dev tray !! So the less toxic chems I have in the open the better. To that end I'm looking at eventually using Tektol. regards Peter