He was talking about C++. The C++ specification costs money. There is no free version of the complete C++ specification. The irony of this is that "Trouble" called ASP.net a "paid web language" when in fact the C# specification (which is typically the language of choice for ASP.net) is open-source and free, whereas C++ is not.
I don't get it. I have the C# standard right here on my hard drive. -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Littlefield, Tyler Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 3:39 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: website and programming tools and acessibility with jaws Judging that I sent it to the mailing list, yeah, i assumed so. It still holds true though if you ever wanted more than the draft of the c++ standard. On 8/19/2011 1:18 PM, Katherine Moss wrote:Okay too far. You know that anybody could see that, right? -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Littlefield, Tyler Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 1:28 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: website and programming tools and acessibility with jaws Maybe it's a language where you have to stand on your head and have sex while hanging upside down in a tree with Stroustrip to get the standard? On 8/19/2011 11:21 AM, Christopher Coale wrote:What on earth is a "paid language"? On 8/19/2011 8:50 AM, Trouble wrote:Now this is really a joke. Before ASP and .net. Web designers used PHP, pearl, CGI html, and Apache web server ran on linix or unix. You can find thousands of web site source code showing this. Now why did they use these tools, not because they are all free, but because they did the job needed. There where no paid web languages until ASP and .net and they still don't rule the web. At 10:17 AM 8/19/2011, you wrote:If you choose to do php development it means that your customer hasnot enough money to afford a payed technology, so for sure he/she will not pay you Jesus, what's with all these people ditching logic class. On 8/19/2011 12:23 AM, Christopher Coale wrote:Really. You didn't? Did you look? Probably not. Let me help you: <http://www.google.com/search?btnG=1&pws=0&q=visual%2Bstudio%2Bphp http://www.google.com/search?btnG=1&pws=0&q=visual%2Bstudio%2Bphp It seems like there is quite a bit of buzz about it. Now you are claiming that the only reason someone would choose to use PHP is because they are poor? That's certainly a new one and totally off-topic, but whatever. Someone would choose to use a $1k tool because it contains the set of features that meet their development needs. Simple as that. On 8/18/2011 11:10 PM, black ares wrote:Really? I didn't see some one using visual studio for php development. And what you are saying is your point of view, not a professional point of view. Technically speaking, on the extreme side, you are right, you can use what ever ide you want for doing development in what language you want. But explain me why some one will choose to use a 1000 $ tool (like visual studio is) to do php development which is a free language. If you choose to do php development it means that your customer has not enough money to afford a payed technology, so for sure he/she will not pay you higher price you have because of the visual studio you use. How ever, keeping the discussion in the technical view, I reiterate the fact that I didn't see any one doing php development on visual studio. Can you show an example please? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Coale" <mailto:ccoale427@xxxxxxxxx><ccoale427@xxxxxxxxx> To: <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx><programmingblind@freelist s .org> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 8:50 AM Subject: Re: website and programming tools and acessibility with jawsExcuse me? Visual Studio is used extensively for web development by many, many professionals. Yes, yes you can "hookup with a specific IDE." HTML, PHP, ASP.net, etc. will all remain the same code no matter which IDE (or non-IDE) a developer uses. You are totally wrong saying that just because someone uses Visual Studio as their IDE, they are bound to use Windows hosting. First of all, the person's choice of IDE does not determine which web host they use. Considering you are a professional in a field, you should know that HTML, PHP, JavaScript, CSS, ASP.net, etc. is the same language and/or set of technologies regardless of the IDE you use. On 8/18/2011 10:20 PM, black ares wrote:The question is bad from the begining. You can not ask about a website development tool, giving example vs 2008/2010. The man enroles in a website evelopment diploma so he aims to become a professional. So, as a professional, you can not hook up with a specific ide, because you must develop according to the project you have. For this reason sometimes you will find yourself working with php with mysql, other times with asp.net o n vs 2008/2010 or whatever vs is out on that time. So you must manage every of them. Because, if you learn only on VS, you will be forced to use windows hosting for example, to buy and pay for the development tools and for the database tools. Don't tell me that there are express editions, that ones are toys for children. As a professional I must know how to manage eclipse for java/php development, how to manage vs for dotnet/aspnet development, how to use notepad or other editor to do xhtml/html layouts and so on. best regards ----- Original Message ----- From: "RicksPlace" <mailto:ofbgmail@xxxxxxxxx><ofbgmail@xxxxxxxxx> To: <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx><programmingblind@freeli s ts.org> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 12:50 PM Subject: Re: website and programming tools and acessibility with jawsFrom what I have read and seen the VS 2008 or VWD 2008 platform and the Sql Server or Sql Server Express (R2) versions because they are newer, are the most accessible development platform if you want a development IDE. Otherwise some folks develop in a editor like notepad. There are a bunch of stand-alone editors for building Websites but I've not used them so can't speak to accessibility. I would worry that they would try and do things like the VS Designers but that they would not have the necessary hooks or scripts to make them work at all. Also, if they try and do Intellisense they might have that inaccessible as well. Newer versions might use WPF or what ever the newer accessibility hooks for Linux and may not be accessible. It is my understanding that the Dreamweaver and other software put out by that compn=any was suppose to be getting more accessible but I've not used it and don't know anyone who has used it with a screen reader. I guess what I am saying is that I have tried a couple of other things over the past 10 years or so and not found one that has all the bells and whistles and is accessible as the VS environment. The 2010 version of anything put out by Microsoft is not going to be nearly as accessible as the 2008 versions since the 2010 versions use WPF and none of the current screen readers support it very well. Also, the JAWS scripts for VS will not work properly with 2010 versions. It is likely your instructor will have you using whatever the class uses but if not you can either stay with what you know or try something new - it's up to you in that case. You could try developing using another IDE and, or, get into stuff like PHP and MySql using some kind of Website development environment but I have never looked at any of them. Others might have some suggestions on either hand-coding everything using text editors or using another platform like Dreamweaver or some Linux based system. Later Marv and good luck: Rick USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Hunkin" <mailto:startrekcafe@xxxxxxxxx><startrekcafe@xxxxxxxxx> To: <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx><programmingblind@freel i sts.org> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 5:52 PM Subject: website and programming tools and acessibility with jawshi. well enrolling in a diploma in website development. and developing a website. now what web site development tools, and which programming tools which works best with Jaws? visual basic, visual web developer, c#, dream weaver, vs 2008, or 2010. which works best with jaws? marvin. ps: will take your more expertise in this area. __________ View the list's information and change your settings at <//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind>http://www.fr e elists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at <//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind>http://www.fre e lists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at <//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind>http://www.free l ists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at <//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind>http://www.freel i sts.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at <//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind>http://www.freeli s ts.org/list/programmingblind-- Take care, Ty my website: <http://tds-solutions.net>http://tds-solutions.net my blog: <http://tds-solutions.net/blog>http://tds-solutions.net/blog skype: st8amnd127 My programs don't have bugs; they're randomly added features!__________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
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